Dans

[bushido_man96]

In the system that I am in, 1st dans are required to teach orientations, and may assist with classes. At 2nd dan, some Black Belts may teach on a more regular basis. At 3rd dan, you become a Certified Instructor, and have more responsibility to teach classes, and can do so without assistance (if over the age of 18, I think). At 4th dan, we acquire the rank of Jr. Master, and at 5th dan the rank of Master.

[Rateh]

Interesting that it's at low-middle dan ranks that people become instructors. I was required to instruct at least 200 hours before I could test for 1st dan. Considering how much I love teaching now, I don't think I could handle a style that wouldn't let me teach classes as a 1st.

Then again..we have no clear requirements for anything above 1st dan. Hence why I am still a 1st after 3 years. Basically I'll advance whenever my instructor feels like it...which will most likely be when the now brown belts test for their 1st.

[bushido_man96]

Interesting that it's at low-middle dan ranks that people become instructors. I was required to instruct at least 200 hours before I could test for 1st dan.

I really think it depends on the association, too. Some places won't allow students under black belt ranks to teach for purposes of experience. Some also think it may look unprofessional for those under black belt to be leading a class. I think that getting in the training hours is important, and can be done through class assitance as well.

[YoungMan]

I've seen higher color belts helping very low students with basics. If you have no choice, that's one thing.

Given a choice, I'll take black belt assistants any day. If nothing else, it looks more professional. After all, students aren't paying to be taught by color belts. You really shouldn't be teaching in any capacity until after black belt. That's one of the definitions.

[ps1]

After all, students aren't paying to be taught by color belts. You really shouldn't be teaching in any capacity until after black belt. That's one of the definitions.

You're right. They are paying to learn martial arts. What's it matter if they learn a reverse punch from a black belt or a green belt? As long as it's taught properly.

[gamedweeb]

My two cents:

This is my understanding of the system as it stands now (Master Lawrence is constantly working to make the curriculum more effective).

1st Degree: You can perform all forms with proficiency, and execute all self-defense patterns with energy, and a degree of precision. As well as perform all of your basics with power, focus, and precision.

2nd Degree: Perform everything from 1st degree with even more precision and have a much better grasp on the details that make the techniques effective. As well as learned a new form (3rd Exam), and about a dozen new self-defense patterns and many extensions to previous patterns. It takes at least 1 years time to promote from 1st to 2nd

3rd Degree: Same requirements as 2nd, but you must demonstrate that you understand the "why" things are done the way they are done in the defense patterns. As well as learned new forms (Long 2 and Kanku Sho), and learned all of the new defense patterns and extensions. It takes at least 2 years to promote from 2nd to 3rd.

4th Degree: Same requirements as 3rd, but you must also have learned the Judo curriculum and be able to perform the techniques with proficiency. As well as learned new forms (short 3, finger set, possibly: Long 3, Long 4, and probably a Shotokan form), you also have to know to self-defense patterns contained in the short 3 form. It takes at least 3 years to go from 3rd to 4th.

After that I'm not sure what there is, from what I've read in Master Lawrence's books, 4th degree is where counter-patterns are learned (patterns to defend against the patterns that have already been learned). I'm not sure if teaching is mandatory at some point during the process. In order to become an instructor there's a separate program for certification. It takes about 3 years to complete, but you go through it in parallel with the regular program.

I think Master Lawrence as plans to incorporate energy work, accupuncture/accupressure into the curriculum at some point as well.

[WudangDragon]

Thanks for all of the feedback people, it's greatly appreciated!

On the subject of grades lower then black teaching, all I have is my own experience. As a green sash (that's 5th grade) I teach two children's Chinese Kickboxing classes along with another green sash (our Sifu watches and gives advice etc. from the side) and assist Sifu with the teaching of the Kung Fu classes.

In the kung fu classes we take the warm up / stretching, referee/co-ordinate the occaisional sparring session and lower grades are instructed to ask myself and the other Assisstant Instructor for help/advice if Sifu is busy working with another group.

We are the most senior students - there are other green sashes in the school, but Sifu trains us as young instructors as well as students - he says it is due to our loyalty and commitment to the school, work ethic and applied effort.

We are quite involved in the running of the school as well, we help make decisions about classes, help build up the Kickboxing syllabus (mainly through trial and error) etc.

In return for helping out we are taught for free, do not pay for gradings, all of our equipment is supplied for us and Sifu often pays for our entry fees to tournaments. He says he is sorry he cannot afford to give us a proper wage for our help, but personally I feel that the trust Sifu has given me, and the sense of pride I feel for this aknowledgement of my training, whilst not the reason I train with full effort, is more than enough payment for a few hours teaching a week.

Thats all I've really got to offer - sorry it took so long to say it all

[Sensei Rick]

wudang, it sounds like you're on the right path and so is your instructor. Hopefully he is watching you and giving you feedback on your teaching. Give your feedback in the same manner, and look at what will make a person a better black belt... or sash or stripe or whatever. careful to give feedback, not criticism and focus on what they do right too.... compliments keep the student coming back.

I have just a point to add. I have some students testing for 2nd dan soon so I want to let you know my feelings.

the difference between 1st and 2nd dan should be the same as white belt to black belt.. i look for that dramatic of a change. And yes the time is shorter because a BB knows how..... and 2nd knows why... and how a lot better.... the why isn't really expected of 1st dan, they just know how to do some stuff. A popular saying in my club is "now it's time to learn what you DON"T know about what you KNOW.

Then 3rd should have a good teaching understanding. it's a whole different world when you start teaching. You will probably learn a new kata or two at these higher levels, but is one more difficult than the next.... I don't believe they are, at that point you should be able to learn a new kata rather quickly.

above 3rd, it should be your contributions to the art... as someone stated earlier, how you can contribute varies, but you should have BB of your own and maybe they are teaching too..... hope i added a little something.

[ninjanurse]

Just as a Black Belt does not entitle you to respect, it does not make you a teacher. Respect is earned, teaching is learned. Interested students with potential should never be discouraged from teaching and should be encouraged as soon as they express interest. Careful guidance and preparation will help them become good instructors-reckless use of their abilities can turn them off forever.

[bushido_man96]

Just as a Black Belt does not entitle you to respect, it does not make you a teacher. Respect is earned, teaching is learned. Interested students with potential should never be discouraged from teaching and should be encouraged as soon as they express interest. Careful guidance and preparation will help them become good instructors-reckless use of their abilities can turn them off forever.

I agree completely. It is not a good idea to force those who cannot teach well to do so. However, I do believe that everyone should get some training on the nuances of teaching, and experience it at least once, as an assistant, of course. After that, the student should decide what they can or want to do.

I do know that some styles require teaching to be done on some level for higher rank promotion. I am not sure that this is a good thing or not, but I do kind of agree that those of higher ranks should be able to relate their skills to those of lower rank who need and ask for assistance.