TKD'er going to Karate

[bushido_man96]

Doing a quick search on "whip kick", I see TKD does one called that also, but from the description...it's not even close to the same thing we do.

In TKD, the "whip kick" that I have seen is what I have called a hook kick in the past. What does your version look like?

[Montana]

In TKD, the "whip kick" that I have seen is what I have called a hook kick in the past. What does your version look like?

Yes, I read numerous descriptions of the TKD whip kick. Nothing at all like what we do.

It's hard to explain really, but our "whip kick" isn't just one kick, but rather in the execution of the front snap kick and side kick (mostly). I have some examples of it on CD's from several sensei's of our system, but haven't a clue as to how to get them on the net...or whether I should or not. Not that it's all that big of a secret really, but it's rather unique to our system...possibly some other Okinawan systems.

How do I explain it? First of all, all of our kicks come all of the way to the knee before going out to their intended target. Many systems I've seen don't emphasise this much, if at all...whereas we put great importance on that little detail. Once the kick is chambered at the knee (no, there is no pause there), from that point (the knee) is where the power for the kick comes from in a whipping motion. Very quickly out to the target...contact, then just as quickly withdrawn. Emphasis on returning back to the knee just as quickly as it went out. This kick is more of a close in technique rather than a distance technique. We work a lot of angles in our defense and counter attacks, so targets are normally the side of the leg...and both inside and outside of your opponents leg.

That whipping motion creates a lot of power very quickly and literally can break bones. Since all of our kicks are low level kicks, the damage to your opponent occurs from the ankle to the lower abdomen.

It's easy to demonstrate, but difficult to put into words. Did that help at all?

[YoungMan]

I question the wisdom of learning two separate and very different striking arts. It is better to learn one striking art, commit it to muscle memory, and have its techniques be part of your automatic response.

In contrast, learning two striking arts is a recipe for confusion and delayed response, as your body won't know which way to go should the need arise.

Should I do a TKD kick or a karate kick? How should I move? And don't give me "well now you'll know two". I don't buy that. I think it's better, and safer, to learn and understand one striking art that you are fully grounded in. Then, after 4th Dan, you can try a different, non-striking art.

Have a basic understanding of karate to know how it works? Sure. Actually become a student in it? I don't recommend that.

[bushido_man96]

Once the kick is chambered at the knee (no, there is no pause there), from that point (the knee) is where the power for the kick comes from in a whipping motion. Very quickly out to the target...contact, then just as quickly withdrawn. Emphasis on returning back to the knee just as quickly as it went out.

Did that help at all?

That does help. It makes think of what I have heard called a "snapping" kick as opposed to a "thrusting" kick. Would that be a good analogy?

I also understand what you are saying about the importance of the chamber position when kicking. Most of the kicks we do have the chamber position, except for the spinning heel kicks, and some people choose to do the crescent kicks straight legged. I prefer to chamber them, however.

[bushido_man96]

I question the wisdom of learning two separate and very different striking arts. It is better to learn one striking art, commit it to muscle memory, and have its techniques be part of your automatic response.

I would disagree here. I think that you can take something from each. I also wonder how much different a TKD punch and a Karate punch would be. Maybe one chambers at the hip, and the other at the rib, but in the end, you do the same punch. As for the kicks, there may be different chamber positions, but the leg will still go out and back; you just might start it differently. In the end, I think you still have the same basic component parts.

[Montana]

that does help. It makes think of what I have heard called a "snapping" kick as opposed to a "thrusting" kick. Would that be a good analogy?

Yep, that's pretty much it. Takes some practice to maximize the "snap" from that position, but when you've got it...Oh BABY...it's powerful.

[Zanshin]

that does help. It makes think of what I have heard called a "snapping" kick as opposed to a "thrusting" kick. Would that be a good analogy?

Yep, that's pretty much it. Takes some practice to maximize the "snap" from that position, but when you've got it...Oh BABY...it's powerful.

I don't know the first thing about TKD, but is'nt it possible that styles, dojangs and instructors are going to vary in terms of what they teach.

To my knowledge the kick you are describing is not unique to Okinawan karate. Most decent systems will have the short range whip kick that you describe in their repertoire, so maybe he already does it.

Just playing devils advocate

[bushido_man96]

that does help. It makes think of what I have heard called a "snapping" kick as opposed to a "thrusting" kick. Would that be a good analogy?

Yep, that's pretty much it. Takes some practice to maximize the "snap" from that position, but when you've got it...Oh BABY...it's powerful.

I don't know the first thing about TKD, but is'nt it possible that styles, dojangs and instructors are going to vary in terms of what they teach.

To my knowledge the kick you are describing is not unique to Okinawan karate. Most decent systems will have the short range whip kick that you describe in their repertoire, so maybe he already does it.

Just playing devils advocate

I think that, in the end, most of the techniques end up being more similar than they do different. The limbs can only move in so many ways.

[Montana]

To my knowledge the kick you are describing is not unique to Okinawan karate. Most decent systems will have the short range whip kick that you describe in their repertoire, so maybe he already does it.

Just playing devils advocate

Possibly, but I've always taken the opportunity to watch other classes and systems when possible and have judged open style tournaments for 25+ years and haven't seen anyone from any other system do it yet...or not quite like we do anyway.

[isshinryu5toforever]

Well, I can give the point of view from someone who went from Karate, and we do bareknuckle full-contact style competition, to taekwondo in college. The Karate made me a much tougher competitor. It also made me much better with my hand work. When I punch someone, they know it. Also, the full-contact aspect made me more aware of the way the body moves. Olympic-style sparring has also given me some things. It gave me a different style of fighting. It made me rely on my speed and mobility more than my ability to stop someone before their momentum gets going. It gave me a game farther away than within arms reach. It made me look at things differently. The kicking variations matter less than the fighting insight it gave me. I think training in two striking styles that are so starkly different is a good thing. It's definitely given me things that I wouldn't have if I had stuck strictly with full-contact karate.