RBSD

[NightOwl]

Reality based self defense for those who haven't heard of it. What are your thoughts on it? Does it really provide better psycological training for handling a real attack? Sometimes I think that these places sell themselves on fear- the fear that around every corner somebody is waiting to mug you and that unless you train there no fighting skill will work 'in the real world'. To be fair, many times martial artists can't fight...but at the same time would RBSD training be much better? Anyhow, that's my 2 cents

[bushido_man96]

I think it really depends on who you get. If you can get into some of the scenario-based training, then I think yes. Many styles talk about awareness. However, showing you how to approach a hard corner, what to look for on passers-by, and things like that take a different approach. Also, knowing the use-of-force continuum is an important aspect taught in most of these styles as well, and for good reason. Many times, you hear people say "I would rather by tried by 12 than carried by 6." However, when the 12 sentence you to 5 to 10, it changes the perspective a bit.

I am sure that there are some who claim RBSD out there, and are just junk. It is that way with a lot of Arts and Styles. However, I do think that the good ones can serve their purpose well. A lot of these guys come from military or law-enforcement backgrounds, which gives them a dramatically different take than from someone like me, the career dojang teacher.

[The BB of C]

I think it's not accurate at all to say martial artists can't fight. Also, that organization shouldn't be saying they train better than everyone else.

[cross]

Reality based self defense for those who haven't heard of it. What are your thoughts on it? Does it really provide better psycological training for handling a real attack?

For the most part id say yes. A good RBSD school will be geared specifically with teaching you how to protect yourself before, during and after a violent confrontation.

Sometimes I think that these places sell themselves on fear- the fear that around every corner somebody is waiting to mug you and that unless you train there no fighting skill will work 'in the real world'.

Its not so much about trying to make people fear confrontations. Rather being prepared for it and facing the reality that it could happen has opposed to just saying "you are learning these techniques so you never have to fight". Doing this kind of training is similar to having car insurance. You dont crash your car everyday, but you still have the insurance, just in case.

To be fair, many times martial artists can't fight...but at the same time would RBSD training be much better? Anyhow, that's my 2 cents

Id say yes again, the training you get at a good RBSD school will be worlds ahead of anything you would get at a martial arts school. Personally i attended a 4 day seminar with Richard Dimitri(https://www.senshido.com) and learned more about self protection and actually dealing with all aspects of a violent confrontation in those 4 days than i did in around 6 years of training at various traditional schools.

Just my experience.

[NightOwl]

Yes, I am sure that there are good RBSD places- the best ones you will probably find in military and police/security training centers. But a lot of the prominent stuff (that I see at least- maybe I am refusing to see the good...) is DVDs claiming 'PRISON FIGHTING SECRETS', weekend women's self defense classes, and unrealistic gun disarming techniques that are likely to get you killed. I still don't think that most places prepare someone for the adrenaline rush that you get when you encounter a dangerous situation, however to be fair most traditional martial arts places don't either.

[cross]

Yes, I am sure that there are good RBSD places- the best ones you will probably find in military and police/security training centers. But a lot of the prominent stuff (that I see at least- maybe I am refusing to see the good...) is DVDs claiming 'PRISON FIGHTING SECRETS', weekend women's self defense classes, and unrealistic gun disarming techniques that are likely to get you killed. I still don't think that most places prepare someone for the adrenaline rush that you get when you encounter a dangerous situation, however to be fair most traditional martial arts places don't either.

There is good and bad in everything. Its the same for traditional and modern arts, there will always be the people making unrealistic claims and teaching equally unrealistic things. Some of the self protection guys who seem to have stood the test of time and are offering a variety of good information include(but not limited to):

Richard Dimitri- https://www.senshido.com

Sammy Franco- https://www.sammyfranco.com

W. Hock Hochheim- https://www.hockscqc.com

Check them out and some of their material before you judge for or against. For most of this stuff if you can look past the marketing and look to the actual material and message being presented you will benifit.

[NightOwl]

Nope, sorry but it just isn't doing it for me...I am not however, questioning the competency or expertise of those who run these places. Most of the time they actually have combat experience/ a fighting background, and really can apply their skills. However as you mentioned the marketing is a bit much- looking at titles such as 'Feral fighting secrets' with a picture of bared fangs and a logo of a muscular eagle with an American flag- perhaps they do teach quite well, however from what I have seen of RBSD (outside of those made for people who use it professionally), it hasn't really impressed me. Maybe roleplaying does help for some people I guess- but I can never take those seriously. I think that at its core it is simple fighting principles that can work well if the instructor knows what he/she is doing, but I think the package it is sold in promises just as much as martial arts places that can give too much of a sense of invincibility. Now this is a huge problem with ALL martial arts, but I am picking on RBSD training in particular at the moment because it claims to be the exception. Think of it this way- most RBSD seminars are not in depth programs like those presented- they are the ones you see at community centers etc. People go for a few weekends and quit...not usually going into a long term program like you mentioned and thus not really being able to internalize what they've learned. But if you were going to put in that much time- why not build up a rounded base at an mma gym? It doesn't have the marketing yes but it will make you a better fighter. Do that and pick up a violence prevention book and you'll get similar results but a better offensive capability.

[cross]

Nope, sorry but it just isn't doing it for me...I am not however, questioning the competency or expertise of those who run these places. Most of the time they actually have combat experience/ a fighting background, and really can apply their skills. However as you mentioned the marketing is a bit much- looking at titles such as 'Feral fighting secrets' with a picture of bared fangs and a logo of a muscular eagle with an American flag- perhaps they do teach quite well, however from what I have seen of RBSD (outside of those made for people who use it professionally), it hasn't really impressed me. Maybe roleplaying does help for some people I guess- but I can never take those seriously. I think that at its core it is simple fighting principles that can work well if the instructor knows what he/she is doing, but I think the package it is sold in promises just as much as martial arts places that can give too much of a sense of invincibility. Now this is a huge problem with ALL martial arts, but I am picking on RBSD training in particular at the moment because it claims to be the exception. Think of it this way- most RBSD seminars are not in depth programs like those presented- they are the ones you see at community centers etc. People go for a few weekends and quit...not usually going into a long term program like you mentioned and thus not really being able to internalize what they've learned.

What experience other than reading the sites and looking at the logo's do you have of what they are offering? Have you watched any of the material? Spoken with any of the instructors? Trained with any of the instructors in a class or seminar format?

But if you were going to put in that much time- why not build up a rounded base at an mma gym? It doesn't have the marketing yes but it will make you a better fighter. Do that and pick up a violence prevention book and you'll get similar results but a better offensive capability.

MMA prepares you very well for sport fighting, not self defense. There is a difference. Actually watch some of the material and you will begin to understand this.

[NightOwl]

Mostly the material that I can see without using my credit card, and traveling to interview them is a bit expensive as well at the moment. Richard Dimitri does seem to know well what he is doing, but do a quick youtube search on self defense classes/ RBSD and there's nothing that makes it what it is many times built up to be. Sammy Franco seems to love eye gouges for instance. Are they are great tool? Most definitely, but outside of people such as himself how many people after paying whatever amount they pay for the seminar are really going to be able to pull everything off when the heat is on? Especially if they are not used to having somebody coming at them. 'I would just eye gouge them'/ kick them in the groin is a common answer by those who don't spar against those who do, but so far there isn't much proof that it is a magic bullet- just another weapon in your arsenal. And yes, a good offense is a good defense- once you make it to the point of no return that's when a good grappling/striking base comes in handy. The bigger point then should be not what to do during the fight, but before it...namely it not happening at all. See a bunch of youths on the street late at night? Don't be a 'tough guy'- cross to the other side. Also don't mouth off to strangers, be polite, take a joke, stay in well lit areas, swallow your pride, and if a situation doesn't feel right get out of it (especially to a public place)! If you are a woman, carry mace- and never forfeit your life over some money. I have personally had a death threat against my life before- and I have once been in a situation where I sensed that someone was there to harm me. In the latter (before I did much in the sense of martial arts) I put the car keys between my knuckles and walked quickly to my car where I promptly locked it and drove away. All of that came from the basic RBSD lesson that I got as a kid that I didn't need a VISA for (I use mastercard anyways)- don't go off with strangers. Of course it evolved and adapted from that point, but the fact of the matter is that common sense is your best friend (and not being hotheaded). But once you get to the point where the situation is out of control (or the other person is out of control), knowing how to fight is key.

[bushido_man96]

I still don't think that most places prepare someone for the adrenaline rush that you get when you encounter a dangerous situation, however to be fair most traditional martial arts places don't either.

Accomplishing this is just so hard to do in general. You can get a little bit of it by using yelling in your training, grabbing and pushing someone around, and some other little things you can do here and there to "liven" things up a bit.

A friend of mine and I work with Hock's system, and he really likes it. I am beginning to like it as well. One of the main themes behind the RBSD systems is keeping everything as simple as possible. Not a lot of complex moves, but lots of gross-motor movements and the like. That is why they can get people to go for a 4 hour seminar once every 4 or 6 months, and then come back and work off what they had before. Now, it doesn't always work this way, but for the most part, it is the aim.

Now, what you say about the MMA gym training I also tend to agree with. Being able to fight like that will give you a distinct advantage in self-defense, too.