"The Ultimate Martial Art?"

[Montana]

I recently had the opportunity to watch an hour demonstration at a local "Art in the Park" which featured local artists (lots of them around here) and craftsmen displaying/hawking their wares.

Anyway, Saturday afternoon they were hosting a martial arts demonstration from the largest club in the area. I'll withhold the name of the system so as not to start any inflamatory arguments.

I've seen this groups demo's numerous times, and they never fail to frequently mention that they, and their organization, are the "Ultimate in martial arts"...

What this system consists of is a "break a board and get a belt" mentality where flash is good, the more patches on your gi the better (this space for rent), no head punches allowed (why?), kicking to the groin is considered "dishonorable", black belts as young as 8, and the list goes on.

Essentially, IMHO, a belt factory...but a sanctioned, well established international belt factory!

Anyway, my senior student and his two high school aged kids (also students of mine) and I attended this demo and all we could do the entire time was shake our heads at how open/exposed they were when they did their self-defense techniques, how robotic their movements were, how silly it looked to have the 8 year old black belt doing self-defense techniques aginst an adult black belt 5 times his size, and how basic in technique their "advanced" kata were.

I wanted soooooooooo BADLY to walk into the middle of their demo and say "Listen, what you are doing is so much CRAP!"..."You are taking these people's money under false pretences!"...but I didn't. They talked a lot about their proficency at tournaments and proudly displayed many large trophies of their successes at them. When they opened up the demo to questions from the audience, my senior student asked them "Do you attend tournaments that are open to all systems, or just your own?

The instructor replied "We attend ONLY (inset name of worldwide organization here) tournaments." Then my student asked "Why?"

His reply was "If we competed in open tournaments outside of our organization, we would dominate so much that they wouldn't invite us back again."

I almost lost it at that. I've been a judge/referee at open tournaments for over 20 years, and believe me, the majority of these guys wouldn't make it to the 2nd round!

Like many of you, I am proud and confident of the system that I have chosen to devote my life to. I have confidence that what I have learned in the last 30+ years works in a real life situation, and that knowledge has been put to the test several times during my training. It hasn't failed me yet. I admire anybody that loves their system and devotes their life to it, but to openly state that they are doing the ultimate in martial arts, when that art is full of so many holes and obvious flaws, that a blind man could see them, just amazes me to no end.

Thoughts?

[Jay]

There are unfortunatly many schools like this and from being on these forums I belive you are refering to a McDojo intent on only doing one thing and that is making money. Intructors that make a living out of martials arts in my opinion there isnt anything wrong with it everyone has to make money to live and you are providing a service but these types of schools try and make as much of it as possible. From what you have told me im guessing this school is a TKD school.

The problem is with schools like this it is unfair on the kids, they are given a false sense of security with them beliving these techniques will be effective in a real life situation by doing the exact same thing. In reality this would never work. Although you say that their art is full of many holes and obvious flaws i take it that you mean their interpretation of their art because every style has flaws and holes. I belive it is the teaching that needs to be addressed not the effectivness of the art if it was taught right im sure that it would be effective.

I dont like the cocky and arrogant attitude of the teacher either, again i bet this passes onto the students who think they are better than they actually are.

This kind of propoganda and teaching could eventually lead to a serious injury if a student thinks they can handle a situation they could have walked away from.

[NightOwl]

I'll I can say is welcome to the world of martial arts. A place where in the name of humility, you get people arguing that they are superior because they are more traditional and respectful. A place where most people go to for a sense of confidence but don't really want to have the chance of doubt by having their skills tested. A place where anybody can be a black belt/ expert in the system, as long as they show up to class and pay their dues...and the only place that I can think of where here you can claim to be a master in something you've never actually done. To be frank, the majority of martial artists could not handle themselves in a fight situation, and it takes a lot of soul searching and humility to realize that just maybe, you wouldn't be able too either. Of course, its never MY school that is that way- or is it? You may have seen the demonstration with a critical eye, but the layman usually can't. Likewise the mother wanting her children to be able to protect themselves, or the kid who gets picked on at school, or even the guy next door- all of them can be given the feeling that they are invincible, and get some exercise and a place to hang out included at the same time. I too went down this road, and let me tell you it wasn't easy starting over from scratch. Minimum effort with precieved maximum payout is what sells, and tough training that leaves you bruised and tried isn't what the average person is looking for. Thus, these kinds of places flourish.

[ps1]

NightOwl!! Great Post!!!

As with many of you, I have been in the martial arts for quite a while now. I've studied many systems over my time (and continue to study them for that matter). Here have been some basic observations. Most every martial art (including those that do the fancy stuff in demos) have been successful on the playground/drunk neighbor/school cafeteria/locker room environment. That is to say, the environments that do not tend to be life threatening. In those situations I've seen several guys use a high side kick or a reverse punch and even a jump kick one time. Again, this is the situation where after the fight, the two guys shake hands and laugh about it later.

However, in the kind of situation where a beer bottle breaks and you get hit in the back of the knees with a bat, I would say that all arts are equally unable to handle this with technique alone. It's the person and how intense their training is and how lucky they are at the time. As NightOwl observed, it takes a lot of soul searching to really come to a conclusion on how you would react. I'm very skilled. In nearly every art I've studied, I have always been among the best. But in life, there are no guarntees. In the situation above (and millions of others like it), I'd be in trouble.

I guess my point is this. I enjoy watching the fancy demos. I think they require alot of atheleticism and they are just kinda cool. But I've learned to filter out the crap. The people who choose to go there are looking for that. When they walk into my school, I show them what we do but never badmouth another school (not good karma). The rest is in someone elses hands.

[The BB of C]

You have so much more patience and tolerance for that stuff than I do.

[ewhip]

Interesting timing on this post for me because I've recently been looking to get back into martial arts after a long layoff. I'm no expert by any means, but I have enough experience with different systems to view classes with a critical eye. Unfortunately I've been really disappointed with how much belt factory activity is out there.

Honestly, I like a good demo - whether it be TKD or Shotokan - doesn't really matter to me. If the practitioners are good and seem dedicated, I try to take it for what it is - a demo intended to be fun. The arrogance that this outfit demonstrated is intolerable however and just flies in the face of everything I think m.a. should be about.

I don't think that you have to be the best in the world to earn a black belt, but I'm adamant that you should have put in the time and effort and at least become as knowledgable and skilled as possible in the techniques. I've been shocked at what I've seen from advanced students at some of the schools I've been to. Some of them seemed to be attending their first day in the system - really sad.

And I'm sorry, maybe I'm old school, but no matter how good a 10 year old is, I'm pretty turned off by schools with a raft full of elementary school black belts. And I'm NOT going to be in a class with them as one instructor told me I would be recently. Yes, as a 36 year old grown up, I would like to be in a class with 10 year olds - that really boosts my confidence and inspires my dedication to taking this seriously.

Anyway, sorry for the rant. Looks like this hit a nerve with me today! LOL!

[bushido_man96]

Sounds like you were fit to be tied at this ordeal, Montana. I can't say as I blame you, though. I think I may know which organization you may be talking about, but changing the names to protect the innocent here is a good approach to take.

As with any incident that you witness like this, it is important to try and not to lump all of the schools of the organization into the category of the likes of this one. There are good instructors out there, that are doing everything that they can for their students' experience. It only takes one bad apple...

When mentioning that they would overrun the competition of open tournaments...this is just terrible PR, in my opinion. The instructor should know better than this. However, it was a good way of sidestepping the question, and trying to save face. It really is too bad that the school presented itself in this way.

Ps1, you had a great post. I gleaned a lot from that. Even after 14 years of study, I have some qualms about being in situations of defense. I deal with it as best that I can, and try in my training to do what I can to keep things simple, and evaluate situations, and how I should approach them.

To be frank, the majority of martial artists could not handle themselves in a fight situation, and it takes a lot of soul searching and humility to realize that just maybe, you wouldn't be able too either.

This is so very true, and I am not ashamed to say that I could be among these ranks. A friend of mine and I were once talking about fighting, self-defense, etc. My friend has been in some scrapes, and knows what it is about. He flat told me, from knowing me so well (we are as close as brothers), that I "just don't have it. I'm sorry, but you just don't. Now your brother, he's got it. He is just crazy." And I know he is right. Some people are born with that knack, that twist, that extra whatever that allows them to take it to that level, and get into it. It was always hard for me to dig that up. It still comes hard. However, by I try to use my knowledge base, and some self-talk, to help myself out with this. My new job has helped me in a lot of ways when it comes to developing this mindset. I believe that I am a little different now than when my friend evaluated me.

[YoungMan]

You know, I've given up getting mad and frustrated at these demos and thinking "we could do so much better" because it accomplishes nothing. When I see these jokers in their fancy uniforms and flashy technique, I just shake my head, be thankful I practice where I do and train a little harder next time so that I don't become like them.

[lordtariel]

I've seen those sorts of displays as well. You have to shake your head at the arrogance of some people. So next time they have an event where they're doing a demo, see if you can get your dojo to do a demo before or after this other group.

[bushido_man96]

I've seen those sorts of displays as well. You have to shake your head at the arrogance of some people. So next time they have an event where they're doing a demo, see if you can get your dojo to do a demo before or after this other group.

That would be a great idea. With the set-up you described, it would probably be a good opportunity for you and your school. You would also show something else to the people watching, something that might make more sense to them.