curious

[KarateEd]

6-9 months? That seems a bit much to have to wait for yellow belt testing.

6 months is more the norm but depending on someone's progression and when he/she began it could conceivably take up to 9 months.

Ed

[bushido_man96]

One thing that you may like to think about though is the fact that you say you have been self training for 4 years now and, by your own admission you say you feel you are equal to a “school taught” TKD student who has probably been training for about 6 months.

That should probably tell you something.

Agreed. I've ran into many self-taught martial artists over the past 30+ years and one thing they all have in common (I'm not saying you do) is very weak technique, sloppy, exposed, poor stances/foundations, no understanding of what they are really doing (the mechanics) and the list could go on. Instruction from a qualified teacher is essential to iron our deficiencies and short comings in order to progress and improve.

I can see the points that you guys are making. However, if someone has no other options, then trying to figure things out on your own is the only other option that you have. It may not be the best option, but it may be the only one.

I also understand what you are saying, Montana, about the stances, technique, etc. However, I think that most of the "self-taught" people out there are mainly working on fighting concepts and principles. In this instance, knowing a proper front or middle stance will not be of as much importance. Hand techniques may not have as much technique involved either; they will punch more like a Boxer (not bad technique, just different technique) and other simpler moves as well. Not as much "style" involved, I guess.

[Athena]

Crrection to you Montana. You don't need an instructor to improve. It just takes more time. Thank you bushido! No harm done and nothing held against you, But would you people please concider the person doesn't always have a diff. option other then to self teach? I live in a small town here where when you say "martial arts" people usually link it directly to karate...and half the people you know might know karate to SOME degree.

(occasionally people will tease about "kung fu" and some people more involved with the world might venture to guess TKD. that's it though)

I also said I was leniant with my training. Focused on more important things. school first hobbies and interests second I am a afraid. But now I Am becoming more skilled with managing my time so bleh XD

[Zanshin]

One thing that you may like to think about though is the fact that you say you have been self training for 4 years now and, by your own admission you say you feel you are equal to a “school taught” TKD student who has probably been training for about 6 months.

That should probably tell you something.

Agreed. I've ran into many self-taught martial artists over the past 30+ years and one thing they all have in common (I'm not saying you do) is very weak technique, sloppy, exposed, poor stances/foundations, no understanding of what they are really doing (the mechanics) and the list could go on. Instruction from a qualified teacher is essential to iron our deficiencies and short comings in order to progress and improve.

I can see the points that you guys are making. However, if someone has no other options, then trying to figure things out on your own is the only other option that you have. It may not be the best option, but it may be the only one.

I also understand what you are saying, Montana, about the stances, technique, etc. However, I think that most of the "self-taught" people out there are mainly working on fighting concepts and principles. In this instance, knowing a proper front or middle stance will not be of as much importance. Hand techniques may not have as much technique involved either; they will punch more like a Boxer (not bad technique, just different technique) and other simpler moves as well. Not as much "style" involved, I guess.

Ok, if we take a view that self teaching is the only option available (for the reasons stated), I feel that the best someone could hope to achieve is to "mimic" the techniques that they have seen in a book / DVD etc. They certainly would not be able to pick up concepts and principles that are often locked deep inside many systems.

As my instructor once said, if you perform the moves in Karate without fully understanding why you are performing them, then you are just dancing.

Can you "understand" by reading a book or video? I don't think so, because you have to "realise" the principles yourself and the only way to do that is by years of training under a watchful eye of a knowledgeable instructor.

I am not sure that teaching yourself a martial art isn't actually counter productive for a number of reasons including the possibility of causing injury if techniques aren't performed safely. In addition you could be lulling yourself into a false sense of security and if you ever needed to call upon your training it may let you down. You could also be learning lots of bad habits that could be very difficult to undo.

Secondly, I think the key to all martial arts is practicing against a partner. If you do not put into practice the techniques you are learning then once again you are just dancing. Training at a club, gives you such an opportunity.

If training at a club is absolutely out of the question (which if I remember correctly Athena said he had a Karate club local to him but chose not to go because "everyone else went there"), then I would suggest that the best martial arts you could learn is Run-Fast Ryu. Keep your self fit and healthy, eat well exercise daily and wait for the opportunity to arise when you can start serious MA training with an instructor.

All of the above said, take this opportunity to read and learn about as much MA as you can. When the time is right you can then make an informed decision.

[Montana]

Speaking from my own observations and experiences only here, this is what I've found from people that are "self-taught".

When I first moved into this area back in 1985 and started teaching a karate class in my basement, word spread quickly (small town Montana) about me, and being a high school teacher I was bombarded daily with kids telling me about Brian...another "instructor" and high school student, that was "Fantastic!" and teaching out of his parents garage.

I met Brain a few days into the school year (he was a senior) and found that he had taken a few months of classes from a blue belt Chuck Norris System instructor, and a few months worth of classes from a local 7th Dan San Sou instructor. He told me he felt he knew more than they did, so started training on his own from videos (pre-DVD days) and books. As chance would have it, Brian's father was my wifes boss at the hospital and we were invited over to their house for dinner a few weeks later where I had the opportunity to talk at length with Brian about what he was doing. He invited me out to his garage where he had an impressive collection of every martial arts weapon that you can buy from a catalog.

I asked him if he wouldn't mind showing me some things that he was practicing, and he eagerly agreed.

Well folks, all I can say is...YUCK! To say he was sloppy would be a gross understatement. To say his technique had no power would be like comparing a very expensive sports car of your chosing, to a lawn mover. And this kid was teaching, and PROMOTING about 10 other high school kids!

He was more concerned on looking good, rather than proper function. Blocks were nearly non-existent, no chambers (to the knee and back) for kicks, punches were wild and unfocused (as was everything he did).

I have run into several other self-taught people through the past 30+ years...not one has ever impressed me of having any technique above possibly a very low kyu ranking, yet considered themselves very good...right up in the black belt levels. They all have the same inherent weakness's and flaws in their techniques...stances, blocks, power, etc. You can't learn that stuff without a sensei telling you where you're making your mistakes and correcting your flaws.

[NightOwl]

I don't think that it is impossible to self teach- but you should get some feedback from somebody else at times if possible. Training just by yourself is usually not the best option, but I suppose that it is necessary at times.

[bushido_man96]

I see where the confusion is coming from, I think. From the posts that I read, most of us are thinking that Athena is teaching herself Karate or something of the like. I don't think that is the case. I think the case here is about learning fighting principles and ideas, and practicing them to an extent to where they can be called on and used. I don't see a problem with this; after all, it beats the alternative form of learning, which would be to start fights and get first-hand experience that way.

At the heart of the Martial Arts is fighting (the Martial part). Anyone can learn to fight, and you don't have to learn it on a dojo floor. My dad was a good fighter before he got into TKD. His dad was a very nasty guy, who was known to put people in their place, and never studied a Martial Art a day in his life. However, I consider him a Martial Artist, because of the skill and abilities that he had. Remember, Martial Art doesn't always equal "I train in an Eastern style in a dojo." As Bruce Lee mentions, we all express ourselves differently.

[Zanshin]

Hi Athena,

I would like to apologise for referring to you as male.

I don’t know what I was thinking that anyone bearing the name of a Goddess could be a guy. V Sorry.

Also sorry if my rant came over a bit negative. I think on reflection there is no harm in what you are doing and that it is investing your time in a healthy hobby which cant be bad at the end of the day.

[Athena]

reallyneevr noticed being called a man O.o

hmm m*reads over thread*

as far as gender goes i don't mind it..ive been called male names before because of my real life tom-boyish name -.-; just don't call me an "it" and we'll be fine.

and thank you for your thoughts on reflection

Wahoo! Thank you Bushido *huggles* haha, he hit the points exactly.