Hand to Hand VS Duel Weider

[cross]

Like i said before if i were to have no weapon , then really the only choice is to run. Or you could try and be a hero , but who wants to get stabed or slashed ? no1

Whilst i agree that running is the best option, its not always the only one you have. What if you are out with your wife and kids, is running still a suitable option? In an elevator or other confined space? there are lots of examples but the point is you cant always run, straight away.

And its easy to say "just run" and that should be one of the first options in all self defense situations(doesnt have to be running specifically, but leaving the scene), but that doesnt really deal with the question very well.

Just for the purpose of discussion, lets assume running isnt an option... then what? Chances are you will probably get severely injured and possibly die facing 1 knife let alone 2. But that doesnt mean their arnt certain principles you can train in that will help increase your chances of survival. They are not guarantees, but things that can help much more than having no gameplan at all.

Firstly, has others have mentioned, finding an improvised weapon would be a huge benefit, preferably something big that you can hit hard with or throw. Once again, this is not always an option and alot depends on how creative you are and if you have the presence of mind to make use of something.

When it comes to unarmed vs. knife, there are usually 2 schools of thought:

1. Always grab the weapon hand before striking the attacker.

2. Never grab the weapon hand, just strike the attacker.

I dont think that defending against a knife(or any other attack) is that absolute. Each one has its place at certain times within a situation. Sometimes its better for your own good to try and secure the weapon hand, while at other times its more appropriate to just strike, or strike and then secure. It depends purely on what is happening in front of you in the moment.

The training we do to defend against a dynamic knife attack follows a fairly specific process. Firstly, learn the parts of the body you should avoid getting cut, and at the same time the parts where you can afford to get cut and still be able to function(minimization of wounds). This is important because if a persons only goal is to cut you with a knife, then you most likely will get cut. The advantage you have however is that you will hopefully be able to get cut in areas that are not life threatening to you.

Next develop a knife defense "stance" that protects your vulnerable areas as much as possible and still gives you access to your offensive weapons. From here we work on some basic jamming skills that give you a much greater chance of being able to wrap the arm and secure the weapon hand. Then practice each of the things a person with a knife will likely try to do to you once you have secured their weapon hand. Also look at the attacks you can perform from these positions.

Each thing is drilled against a person with a training knife attacking at full speed with real energy in a completely random way with the sole intent of cutting you to pieces with the knife. From here you start to experience what works and what doesnt, then you can slow things down and break down individual areas you want to work on and then build up the intensity again. If you want to work against 2 blades, give your friend the 2 training blades again and tell him to cut you with them. Make it your goal to minimize the damage and more importantly, keep going even if you get "cut".

These isnt really a 1 size fits all answer to this that is foolproof, but by throwing yourself in the deep end you will learn alot fairly quickly.

[yingampyang]

Yes thats true , and in that situation you will have to apply some different skills.

[NightOwl]

Cross,

The weapons laws are pretty strict for Aussies yeah? The prospect that someone could pull a weapon is why I prefer to carry one if I am in the states. I really don't have the ability to disarm someone barehanded.

[cross]

Cross,

The weapons laws are pretty strict for Aussies yeah? The prospect that someone could pull a weapon is why I prefer to carry one if I am in the states. I really don't have the ability to disarm someone barehanded.

Thats true. The laws in my state regarding knives are as follows:

"it is an offence for a person to have custody of a knife in a public place without reasonable excuse. Acceptable excuse includes:

* lawful pursuit of the person's occupation

* preparation or consumption of food or drink

* participation in a lawful entertainment, recreation or sport

* or during travel to or from or incidental to these activities."

In regards to guns, the rules are very strict also, no carry or ownership without a licence, very specific storage and carrying regulations.

So for the average law abiding citizen in aus, carrying a weapon for protection is limited to more improvised weapons, not specialized ones.

[NightOwl]

So basically the only people who would stop brining knives and such are those who obey the law, and the criminals carry them anyways? Tough luck mate- Crocodile Dundee was way off...

[bushido_man96]

So basically the only people who would stop brining knives and such are those who obey the law, and the criminals carry them anyways? Tough luck mate- Crocodile Dundee was way off...

This is the very reason why I advocate the conceal and carry laws. The bad guys already have them, regardless of the law.

[cross]

Some concerns i have regarding carrying a specialized weapon for self defense are as follows:

Ability to deploy and use. Unless you practice drawing/opening/using/retaining the weapon in a high stress environment on a regular basis, your chance of doing so when it counts is slim to none. Also even if you can draw the weapon, the chance of the attacker taking control of it and using it against you is always present. I suppose with that you need to weigh up risk vs reward.

Also i feel that a person carrying a weapon will be more inclined to use it, even if the situation doesnt warrant its use.

Just some thoughts.

[NightOwl]

Some concerns i have regarding carrying a specialized weapon for self defense are as follows:

Ability to deploy and use. Unless you practice drawing/opening/using/retaining the weapon in a high stress environment on a regular basis, your chance of doing so when it counts is slim to none. Also even if you can draw the weapon, the chance of the attacker taking control of it and using it against you is always present. I suppose with that you need to weigh up risk vs reward.

Also i feel that a person carrying a weapon will be more inclined to use it, even if the situation doesnt warrant its use.

Just some thoughts.

All data shows when citizens become more or less armed, crime levels are inversely proportional. Nobody ever tried to hold up a gun convention. To get a concealed weapon permit you need to have training and a clean criminal background. There are cases of people slipping through, but the crime rates for those with a concealed weapons permit are lower than the average person. Otherwise it is as you mentioned a case of risk vs reward and what you are comfortable with.

[bushido_man96]

Some concerns i have regarding carrying a specialized weapon for self defense are as follows:

Ability to deploy and use. Unless you practice drawing/opening/using/retaining the weapon in a high stress environment on a regular basis, your chance of doing so when it counts is slim to none. Also even if you can draw the weapon, the chance of the attacker taking control of it and using it against you is always present. I suppose with that you need to weigh up risk vs reward.

Also i feel that a person carrying a weapon will be more inclined to use it, even if the situation doesnt warrant its use.

Just some thoughts.

I agree. Many times people will just train in using/firing the weapon, and not the drawing/deployment of the weapon. This is just as important as knowing how to fire the weapon properly. The deployment may even be more important. If you get held up with your gun in your pocket, it isn't going to do you any good.

[tallgeese]

Agreed about the "grab and stab" being much more comon than slashers. I think, but don't know, that this would bear out statistically if one took the time to look at ER data.

As for the original post...wow, that's a crappy place to end up. Talk about a negitive. Ignoring for a second the very valid question of how one would let this situation develop, I'd say clear out and esclate weapons or barring any weapons to escalate to, just bug out.

I agree that when stuck at a bad range crashing the gap to neutrilze the weapon is a good tactic and works much better than trying to maintain a set range with a knifer. However, I think that crashing against two weapons is a bit much to ask. I cerainly think that attempting any sort of takedown here is as good a suicide. Rather than maintain distance, gain distance. Get out, put whatever you can in the way and clear as far away from this guy as you can. Then go back and spend some more time working on situational awareness.

Yeah, it sounds kinda lame, but barring putting rounds on this dude getting away from him is the safest bet.