youtube video

[lexmark]

Just wondering what some of you think about this video. And one of the comments in particular.

The comment: "shotokan however, was developed for neither. shotokan was developed as a style to be taught to school children and all the lethal aspects of karate were taken out. it was designed to develope coordination, stregnth, health and other hallmarks of a fighter- but it wasnt designed for fighting. in that way, it´s like tai chi."

[bushido_man96]

I didn't see or hear those comments on the video. However, I don't think that they are correct with them. The video did show that it is important to have some idea of how to defend yourself when you get taken down, though. It appeared that the Karateka attempted to strike or grab the throat, but was still unable to get the attacker off.

[ps1]

Every time I hear the elbow break it makes me cringe. Nasty. Anyway, there's no debating that Funakoshi did teach his system in schools. However, to say it was designed soley for that purpose is silly. In "Karate Do: My Way of Life" he speaks of several fighting encounters.

I am more of the opinion that he simply didn't teach all of what he knew to the school children. I believe this because he taught them for physical fitness reasons and disipline. However, some of the incidents in his book lead me to infer that he did teach the more dangerous aspects of the art to, at least, some of his student.

Anyway, Shotokan doesn't have much to handle itself on the ground. That's why the guy looses. I would like to believe that such a challenge match is unlikely to occur these days (with the obvious fighting capabilities of grapplers while on the ground).

[Shorin Ryuu]

If you watch it in slow motion, you'll see that he wasn't that great of a stand up fighter. When the distance began closing, his posture began caving in on itself, he was leaning forward, and had no stability when he tried to strike (or whatever he was trying to do). There wasn't any really solid closing of distance (from his end).

He also took it a little too casually, I think. I didn't detect any spirit either, but that's just me.

[Montana]

If you watch it in slow motion, you'll see that he wasn't that great of a stand up fighter. When the distance began closing, his posture began caving in on itself, he was leaning forward, and had no stability when he tried to strike (or whatever he was trying to do). There wasn't any really solid closing of distance (from his end).

He also took it a little too casually, I think. I didn't detect any spirit either, but that's just me.

Agreed. The karate fighter approached the JJ guy with his hands down, no defensive posture at all. He was either extremely overconfident...or stupid.

[ps1]

Probably a little of both. None the less, when someone wants to clinch with you, they will. They just have to be willing and capable of accepting the abuse they get on the way in. If you don't believe me, work out with a good wrestler (not some guy who wrestled in high school). I'm talking about a wrestler that was all-american or went to a huge wrestling college. You'll be surprised that you don't land more than one or two strikes before you're clinched and probably on the ground.

I was a national champ when I faced a guy who wrestled under Gable. He came at me from about 5 feet away. I never stood a chance. That day I decided I needed to begin studying BJJ.

[Elky]

Old video is old. BJJ versus everything has been done to death. It had a good purpose of pointing out how few people used to train against opponents trying to drag them to the floor. People know that now.

I'm starting to suspect that shotokan *is* a simplified karate as compared to okinawan styles, however it underwent something of a renaissence under the Japanese and makes up in brute force what it lacks in subtlety. In this way it has become a useful martial art in its own right (as have the other Japanese styles - Wado, Goju, Shito and all the Kyokushin-based styles).

Whereas Okinawan karate may have taught vital point striking and rudimentary grappling, the Japanese have judo for grappling and karate for striking.

[kotegashiNeo]

Yeah Elky you are right all the Okinawian guys are black belts in Judo Well at least in the Jundokan they were and they comibine in tight clinching with striking i.e. Taira sensei I would like to see someone clinc with that guy.

I get the point of the vidoe actually I got it 15 years ago in a fist fight with a judoka learn to fight at all ranges it just makes good sense.

[cross]

The main reason shotokan doesnt function against fully resisting attackers is the training methods used. The guy in the video is probably a champion of point fighting and 5 step sparring, but at no point in training would he have dealt with "a guy trying to take you out via knockout or submission".

[bushido_man96]

I was a national champ when I faced a guy who wrestled under Gable. He came at me from about 5 feet away. I never stood a chance. That day I decided I needed to begin studying BJJ.

Was this a friendly encounter, or otherwise, ps1? Either way, I think that many stand-up stylists don't realize how quick it can go to the ground like that. I am very aware of the fact that I have a big weakness when I get taken to the ground, and definitely don't like to think about it. I would love to get into BJJ, or even a Wrestling club, someday, so that I can shore it up.