kyokushin or shotokan

[lexmark]

Hi. I've got a couple of questions and would greatly appreciate any help given. I'm 30 years old and live just outside of Montreal, Quebec Canada, and am looking to get into martial arts. I really only have access to 2 styles, kyokushin and shotokan. I've always been interested just never had the chance. Sorry the post is long.

There are 3 schools where I live that I can get to. 1 kyokushin and 2 shotokan. I'm not so sure about the kyokushin though. There is only 1 instructor and he is a 3rd dan(?). His website says he's been teaching for 30 years and practicing karate for 32. Which says to me that he started teaching it after he'd been doing it for only 2 years. Doesn't sound quite right to me but I really don't know. It says he"s associated with master Andre Gilbert, if anyone is familiar with that name.

For the shotokan, 1 has 2 instructors that are 8th and 9th dans. I dont' know much more than that at this point. It's 100 bucks for 4 months and includes the uniform. Oh, and hte name of school includes the words "Wazate Do Ryu" Can anyone tell me what that means?

The other shotokan school's chief instructor has studied under at least 3 different instructors: Sensei Alan Hertz, 4th dan; Sensei Serge Paguin, 2nd dan; and Sensei Yutaka Katsumata,7th dan, who is the chief instructor for the Association of Shotokan Karate and is based in Montreal.

Any opinions are greatly appreciated. For what it's worth, I'm leaning toward one of the shotokan schools simply because the kyokushin guy doesn't sit right with me but like I said, that could be because I don't know anything about karate and what it takes to teach it.

[Steve_K]

From my experience, it is not uncommon for students who have been training for a couple of years to help teach beginners in basics. I did the same thing once I advanced three or four ranks. Now if they guy is claiming that he became a black belt in two years and has been an official instructor for thirty out of thirty-two, then that would be something to be concerned about. But if you just don't have a good feeling about the guy, then don't risk it.

The main question to ask yourself is, what are you interested in training in the martial arts for? Kyokushin is known for being very tough and training full contact with bare knuckles. If you are interested in the "martial" aspects then kyokushin would be a good consideration. However if you are interested in a less aggressive and more mainstream but still very effective style then shotokan would be your best bet.

If it is 100 U.S. dollars for four months, then that is an extremely good deal. If you decide on shotokan, check the schools out and use your judgement to make sure the instructors are legitimate. Any time you hear someone say they are an 8th or 9th degree black belt you have to make sure their rank is in a well established denomination of karate. I can say that I am a grandmaster of bluegrass style karate, but I'm not really of grandmaster status, you know what I mean? I'm not saying these guys aren't legitimate but when someone is claiming to be of such a high degree, you just need to make sure, because you want to be learning respectable instructor.

I hope that wasn't too much to take in and I hope it helped.

Perhaps some of the other forum members could give you some advice on what to look for in a good instructor?

Good luck and welcome to the forums.

Steve

[lexmark]

Well, the guys that are 8th and 9th dan, their ad in the paper says they are recognized by the Canadian Federation of Martial Arts. Haven't researched that organization yet though.

I don't think I mind the full-contact style but I'm not really an agressive person. And again, the kyokushin guy's website site said he had been training for 2 years before opening his first school.

But I think I should check out each school for a few classes to get an idea of how they work.

thanks

[Zanshin]

Personally, I would look very carefully at a school that advertises instructors as being 8th or 9th dan.

It not impossible that they are the grade they say they are, but to be honest, I have been training in a very traditional Japanese Karate Renmei for over twenty years and have only had the opportunity to train with a 9th dan on a handful of occasions, and he lives in Japan and is sort of legendary.

A simple (but not definitive) test you can do is to "Google" the names / clubs. Chances are, if they are 8th or 9th dans they will be well known. If the results suggest that they are not widely known of (outside of their own club/association), I would be less enthusiastic.

If you have the time, go and have a look at each of the clubs. Look at the students (not the Sensei) and do your best to establish who you think is doing the best karate.

Best of luck and let us know how you get on.

[lexmark]

Personally, I would look very carefully at a school that advertises instructors as being 8th or 9th dan

WEll, after looking at the ad again and googling the names, Marc Asselin 9th adn pierre myre 8th, I don't think those guys are actually instructors at the school. It doesnt' have a website adn I think that it would if those 2 were actually instructors. Marc Asselin instructs in Yoshukai and received his 2nd and 3rd dans in front of 10th dan Master Mamoru Yamamoto and Master Yoshinao Nanbu 10th dan, respectively.

and I think the other guy is like that too so maybe this school is just acknowlegded by asselin myre. I don't know. I"ll have to check it out.

[G95champ]

Yeah watch the 8th and 9th Dan thingy lol

But go and watch both classes. Watch the higher ranked students see which one you think is hte best.

Both styles are very much alike in many ways. I do shotokan and love it but I hear a lot of good about the other as well.

But its about who is teaching not the style they teach so.

[bushido_man96]

The guys above have some good advise. Do your homework on them as much as you can, and also go and sit in on a class or two at each school. Then, get with the instructors and ask questions.

As for the schools with the 8th and 9th dans, go watch for sure. A lot of the time, these high dan grades will have lower dan grades, like 3rd, 4th, or 5th dans, that are teaching the majority of the classes.

Good luck, welcome to the Martial Arts, and welcome to the Forums!

[Elky]

Check out all the schools and train at the one that seems to suit you the best. I train in shotokan and really enjoy it but I've always fancied having a go at kyokushin for the high level of physical conditioning they practice.

And, yes, be wary of 8th and 9th dans! Especially if they're fairly young (by which I mean 40-odd years old). 8th and 9th dans are usually people who've made a pioneering contribution to karate. People like Hirokazu Kanazawa, Steve Arneil, Taiji Kase, Keinosuke Enoeda etc

If someone's claiming that kind of rank, they need some mighty credentials to back it up!

[lexmark]

THanks for all of the responses so far. I really appreciate it. I've been to other message boards, not necessarily martial arts, and some times the new guys get slammed for asking questions that have been asked before. So thanks for not doing that.

I'm on vacation for 2 weeks starting this weekend so it should give me plenty of time to check the schools in my area.

One more question; is learning a style of karate simply because of the convenience of getting to the class, an issue? I've read about some other styles that I'm interested in but there's just too much difficulty in getting to them. Especially since I have a family and job to juggle also.

[Elky]

Sometimes proximity can be a very good deciding factor. The closer the school, the more likely you are to train on days when you don't really feel like it.

In the end, the best thing to do is simply to try them all out though, and go with the one that "feels" the best to you.