What happened to UFC?

[Azmyth]

I'm not trying to say I dislike the UFC.. I enjoy it for wha t it is..

but like you say, if I want to watch pure martial artists vs. brawlers I should probably watch something else.

I think the main thing for me.. is the attitudes they have. Most true martial arts I know are very humble. Those guys are all cocky.... especially Matt Hughes..

[G95champ]

Two changes I would like to see in the UFC.

1. Kicking the down opponent. Yeah I understand if a man is on his back you should not kick him but when Fighter A tries to shoot and his knee is on the mat. I think Fighter B should be allowed to kick him in the teeth. I think that is a unfair rule to strikers.

2. Final round time limit. Maybe not for all matches but title fights anyway. I would like to see no time limit in the final round or in the OT round. Let the winner, win in the ring.

[DokterVet]

It seems like a lot of people posting in this thread haven't actually watched UFC in quite a while.

Tank Abbott hasn't fought in the UFC since 2003 and hasn't won in the UFC since 1998, so he hasn't been relevant to this discussion for nearly a decade.

As for it being only a competition of submission holds? The sprawl and brawl style of fighting developed in the late 1990s with the rise of fighters like Maurice Smith and Bas Rutten, and continues to be a very successful strategy employed by top fighters like Chuck Liddell, Mirko "Cro Cop" Filipovic, Wanderlei Silva, Tim Sylvia, etc. These fighters win primarily by stopping takedowns and using strikes to score a knockout.

To those posters who claim there are no style vs. style matchups anymore, you are wrong. They just aren't the traditional styles that you see in the yellow pages. There are still lots of compelling style matchups.

Ground and Pound is a style used primarily by wrestlers who use their takedowns and positional control to gain a good position from which to punch, kick, elbow and knee their opponents. Noteable GNPers are Tito Ortiz, Randy Couture, Yushin Okami, and Matt Hughes.

There are submission specialists, who use their BJJ, sub wrestling, shootwrestling, judo, sambo or catch wrestling to try to submit their opponents. Antonio Roderigo Nogueira and Jason McDonald are good examples of this style.

I mentioned Sprawl and Brawl a few paragraphs above.

There are well-rounded fighters who can do everything like Georges St. Pierre, Fedor Emilianenko and B.J. Penn.

There are also variations on all these styles. Matt Hughes is more accurately a GnPer/submission wrestler. Noguiera and Penn are jiu-jitsu and boxing specialists, able to punch well standing up and submit you from the ground. The excitement from watching comes from analyzing the style matchup to see who has the advantage (there can be a rock-paper-scissors effect), following individual fighters whose personality or fighting style has made them a favourite of yours, watching the rise of new stars and new fighting styles, etc.

Azmyth, what you are suggesting -- one sport for grappling and one for striking -- already exists. Submission Grappling is a competition ground for all grapplers (the ADCC is the top competition arena) and Kickboxing allows for pure striking competition (K1 is the top competition). The whole point of MMA is to see who can apply their style (striking, grappling or both) in a situation (like real life) where both striking and grappling are allowed. Guys who are exceptional at applying striking to a freestyle environment have shown that they can be effective. However, many fail to apply them to a situation where they can be taken down. As a striking practitioner, shouldn't you be interested in how to apply kicks against an opponent who, like a real attacker, can grab your leg and take you down? Check out fights by Georges St. Pierre, Cung Le, and Mirko "Cro Cop" Filipovic to see kicks used effectively in MMA.

And I don't know about you, but when I see a super slick half-guard pass from Sean Sherk, a clean-landing spinning back kick from St. Pierre, a devastating Judo throw from Karo Parysian, a gogoplata from Nick Diaz, a flying knee by Spencer Fisher or an armbar from Minotauro, I see art.

Also, Matt Hughes trains in Miletich Fighting Systems, an MMA school. His background and main strength is wrestling. He is also a very good submission wrestler.

[A_Train]

Azmyth

Perhaps you would enjoy checking out WCL (World Combat League).

It is a striker competition. I don't know if it is on TV yet, but if you search youtube you can find a few clips of it.

[Azmyth]

make them wear gi's and it will have my vote..

and no they aren't too hard to wear, royce gracie and those guys did it.. so can they now. If it really is martial arts.. I think they should like more like martial artists and less like wrestlers imo.

before long they will have gimmicks.. and valets.

I like UFC now, when i look past the fact that its not really based on what it was founded upon anymore.. which was style vs. style fighting..

hardcore ufc'ers don't take offense to my comments.. i still enjoy it from time to time.. its just getting more and more mainstream.. eventually its not gonna be anything more than a real wrestling match.. which is not bad.. but its not martial arts.

where are the black belts?

[DokterVet]

make them wear gi's and it will have my vote..

and no they aren't too hard to wear, royce gracie and those guys did it.. so can they now. If it really is martial arts.. I think they should like more like martial artists and less like wrestlers imo.

before long they will have gimmicks.. and valets.

I like UFC now, when i look past the fact that its not really based on what it was founded upon anymore.. which was style vs. style fighting..

hardcore ufc'ers don't take offense to my comments.. i still enjoy it from time to time.. its just getting more and more mainstream.. eventually its not gonna be anything more than a real wrestling match.. which is not bad.. but its not martial arts.

where are the black belts?

I would also like gi matches to be included.

Why don't you think it is martial arts? Why do you need a belt to do a martial art?

What is not martial about two combatants fighting each other within a ruleset that is as close to a real unarmed fight as possible while considering the safety of the combatants?

As for art, the word can refer to a skill or craft, such as the art of cooking or the art of selling. The fighters are experts in several fields of combative skills. In other words, they are well versed in martial arts.

[Azmyth]

Yeah, I am sure they are..

I think my issue with it... is that me being a traditionalist, I actually know some local MMA fighters that while they don't do UFC (as of right now) thats their goal.. and when I have ever talked to any of them.. they have no idea what I am talking about when I talk about martial arts, or kata, or forms, or "empty hand". They actually make fun of me for learning "martial arts" rather than doing what they do which they call street fighting. None of the ones I know have ever stepped foot in a martial arts school ever, and I'm fairly sure couldn't do a simple side kick to save their lives. I think thats the main thing that bothered me.. I'm fairly sure that alot of the pro UFC fighters have strong martial arts backgrounds.. but the ones I have come in contact with in person have done nothing but knock traditional martial arts.. Like I said I am old school. Maybe I should overlook the ones like that, and remember that some of them DO have traditional martial arts backgrounds, and that they are not all just street brawlers. I consider martial arts to be more than just seeing who can beat one another's face in. (Kinda killing my point here.. but bleh) Alot of the UFC fighters are cocky, arrogant, and just plain annoying.. when they lose they get mad, and when they win they rub it in your face. I dunno about you.. but the minute i jumped in someone's face in class after defeating them in sparring.. I'd be kicking the heavy bag 1000 or so times as punishment for losing control, and not being disciplined. thats my 2 cents

Tito Ortiz is still pretty awesome IMO..even thought alot of people don't like him.

[bushido_man96]

It seems to me that you view the Martial Arts with the "Eastern bias" that has evolved with styles like Karate, TKD, and such. Keep in mind that Martial Arts come from all over the world, not just the Orient. Different cultures have different ways of doing things, so not all will look the same.

[NightOwl]

"I do not know what it's like to hit a man twice" Who said this cocky quote? A meatheaded mma junkie? Nope, rather a TCMAer named Li 'god of the spear' Shuwen said it long before you or I were born (1864-1934). Cockiness is not exclusive to MMA, nor is respect. Many MMAers I have met are really nice guys, and while I don't like some of the attitudes it attracts, it isn't fair to paint all of them that way.

[Azmyth]

true, like i said.. they aren't all that way..

but as said before.. make them wear gi's and i'd be 100% happier with it. I wouldn't like to watch full contact traditional fighting much either if they wore bicycle shorts.