Street fight critique

[baronbvp]

I just returned from vacation in Europe. While in Paris, my wife and I inadvertently observed a street fight between two French men as we headed to our hotel. Unlike most fights, these two looked as though they had agreed to fight over something (a girl?) because it wasn't a full-out, violent fight that escalated. They did not look to be friends and were fighting hard, but pretty much it was head-hunting boxing only.

One guy was taking the worst of it, though, and the other guy wouldn't stop. I couldn't help realize immediately how effective some kicks and knees would have been. Neither one of these guys was ready to give or receive a knee to the face from a clinch, or to even clinch, or to kick, or grapple. To me it validated the KB/MMA style over street boxing. Why leave any weapons out?

As we circled well around the fight on our way to our hotel, I even quietly pointed out to my wife how neither guy was clinching or using knees or kicks or joint locks or taking it to the ground. Neither man could or would end it as they kept looking for the hand-breaking haymakers to land. To me, the clock was ticking before police were sure to arrive. It was very obvious that they were untrained in true fighting. Also, it seemed to be accepted by the people around as an okay way to resolve their dispute, in a way I haven't seen in the US.

Anyone else ever seen this?

[lordtariel]

Suppose anything can happen during a fight. Emotions are probably running high and blocking out thought. Most fights I've ever seen(only a couple) are usually pushing and flailing though.

[Menjo]

Isn't that what true fighting is though?

They had a problem, a solution, and consider the type of fight. Sounds like the fight was about who was better, not who would win with tactics.

So switching to kicks might show that maybe the other guy was not condifdent to punch, and switching itself would be losing...like two rams smashing head on until victory.

In a way, it sounds like a really honorable fight, no tricks, no numbers, just fighting in its bare form.

By fighting its its bare form I mean not only just punching or whatever, but the absolute collision of two opposing forces without giving way to gain ground such as switching tactics.

And honor really isnt something about dignity in this post, what i mean is that its proving your own abilities by sticking with them when the going gets tough. Does a rock climber studdenly construct an elevator to reach the top? Of course not, realisticly its not practical but you can see the idea.

Its about development, and if one isnt willing to develop even through difficulty, and even in a seriou situation, I can say from experiance, that this type of person will be limited to the typical martial artist losing any skill at that moment. "O that wont work, gotta change that" and this is a waste of time in a heated confrontation, the fighter who wins on the street not in the ring is the one who takes down with the opponent with thier own set of skills, thats why brawling is effective agaisnt MA who cant understand what the goal is, not to down the oppoonet, but to demolish them. The saying "spirit but no skill gets you halfway, having skill and no spirit leaves you with nothing".

People who havnt been in street fights look to fighting events for answers where the technqiues may work, but the mentality is never truely there, anything but thinking "i have to win at all costs" and knowing your body will followe is detremental to surviving. As stated once before on this forum, watch two boxers at a pre-fight confenence and you can see the difference as all the skill goes out the window parlty from stated above.

Ideally, its about going into a situation knowing to yourself, I will win, get away or survive with the ability I have. For most, switching tactics is thier main tactic as thier used to accepting others strength above thier own in certain fields, the ones with those strengths are the ones who acknowledge themselves or their technqiues. Thats why people rave about this master or sensei so and so, while the master has complete confidence in their own game plan and know how to employ it, and have proved it through difficulty.

Edited August 15, 2007 by Menjo

[NightOwl]

Better tactics DO make a better fighter, and I wouldn't consider just fists true fighting. Fighting can be with fists, legs, swords, clubs- I've not seen too many real brawls, but in my high school days I saw a couple and they too were not well done. All of the punches were of the flailing variety, whereas a good straightforward punch could have easily hit on of their very unguarded faces. Also, there was a lot of forward momentum by both combatants, which someone who knew throws or take downs could easily have taken advantage of.

[baronbvp]

Both of you guys make great points. I just know I couldn't restrict myself if I was getting punched in the face, regardless of the honor involved. I saw another thread (don't remember which one) where someone was saying that you bring to the fight yourself, and that's it. If you can't fight beyond wild punching, that's understandable. But as a fighter with at least a few more skills, it would be difficult for me not to bring everything to bear necessary to prevent injury to myself, stop the fight as quickly as possible, and deescalate or escape the situation.

[Menjo]

Yeah guys' your points are great aswell, but in no way did I mean that just flailing or not using strategy was a good way to fight, if thats what I implied in anyway.

[username8517]

Also, it seemed to be accepted by the people around as an okay way to resolve their dispute, in a way I haven't seen in the US.

Out of curiousity, in hindsight did it seem that it was more socially acceptable or was it just the bystander effect?

[baronbvp]

Out of curiousity, in hindsight did it seem that it was more socially acceptable or was it just the bystander effect?

Another good question, bearich. It seemed to me that no one was doing anything about it. They each had a friend trying weakly to help break it up, but no one around seemed to be paying attention. No crowd formed; no one from the business establishment they were in front of seemed to be concerned (maybe because they were already outside, usually the biggest concern); no one helped or tried to break it up; no cops showed up. My biggest sense was that it was business as usual. I'm not actually philosophically against a mutually-agreed-upon street fight that resolves an issue and doesn't escalate or involve anyone else, I just haven't seen that be the case since maybe high school. It was strange. They were smacking each other pretty hard, but no one used anything but closed fist punches to the face with little ducking, bobbing, blocking, or deflecting.

Maybe I've spent too much time watching trained fighters fight, and I forgot what a limited yet uncontrolled event a street fight can be. It was just the low level of violence and an acceptance by others that surprised me, compared to the US.

[bushido_man96]

Both of you guys make great points. I just know I couldn't restrict myself if I was getting punched in the face, regardless of the honor involved. I saw another thread (don't remember which one) where someone was saying that you bring to the fight yourself, and that's it. If you can't fight beyond wild punching, that's understandable. But as a fighter with at least a few more skills, it would be difficult for me not to bring everything to bear necessary to prevent injury to myself, stop the fight as quickly as possible, and deescalate or escape the situation.

I agree with you here. I don't think that fighting (on the street like this) is about honor, but about surviving. I would not have held back. Perhaps they had a "gentleman's agreement," but who knows.

[bushido_man96]

It was just the low level of violence and an acceptance by others that surprised me, compared to the US.

Seeing a ring fight, and witnessing something like this are two very different feelings. Seeing this would seem brutal here, I think. I don't know that bystanders would allow it to go on that long around here.