I visited an ITF School yesterday

[bushido_man96]

I have nothing against the ITF, but you cannot and should not take WTF and ITF at the same time, whether sparring or forms. The techniques and philosophies are too different. Either WTF curriculum or ITF curriculum.

I really don't see that there would be that much of a problem with this. As far as technique is concerned, other than the sine wave, the differences in technique would be very minimal, I think. I have actually been to a school that taught both sets of forms. Also, the sparring would be easy to keep straight as well, as long as you trust in your own ability to adapt back and forth.

[CTTKDKing]

CTTKDKing,

You mentioned your friend's other school, which is ITF. Is your friend going to an ITF school at the same time as a WTF school? If he is, does his Instructor know about this?

I have nothing against the ITF, but you cannot and should not take WTF and ITF at the same time, whether sparring or forms. The techniques and philosophies are too different. Either WTF curriculum or ITF curriculum.

His ITF instructor knows, but our WTF instructor doesn't. I don't think it really makes that big of a deal. My WTF school teaches the ITF forms (also without the sign wave, or at least without the direct reference to it) as well.

[frightmaster]

Well there is a difference betewwn the to organizations. You first mentioned your forms were not as good as thiers. I assume you reffer to the technique and not the Poomse itself. If your form technique is not as good then you should be practicing them before learning a new style of forms. Yuor sparring is good becasue this seems to where you focus your learning efforts. This is a good thing and it works well for you but it may not for the student next to you in either class. I am, in my school, now allowed to learn the ITF forms if I wish to. I prefer to practice my existing forms and learn mopre of my BB forms.

Someone also used the term "perfect". I suggest being careful when using this for no one is perfect in Martial Arts. This is why we study and practice for years and years.

[CTTKDKing]

Well there is a difference betewwn the to organizations. You first mentioned your forms were not as good as thiers. I assume you reffer to the technique and not the Poomse itself. If your form technique is not as good then you should be practicing them before learning a new style of forms. Yuor sparring is good becasue this seems to where you focus your learning efforts. This is a good thing and it works well for you but it may not for the student next to you in either class. I am, in my school, now allowed to learn the ITF forms if I wish to. I prefer to practice my existing forms and learn mopre of my BB forms.

Someone also used the term "perfect". I suggest being careful when using this for no one is perfect in Martial Arts. This is why we study and practice for years and years.

We only learn the ITF forms once we have earned our black belts. Then over the however many years it takes you to get your second degree BB you also learn the ITF color belt forms. That's all I meant. When we're color belts at my school we learn the standard Taeguk poomse, and palgwe poomse. Black belts learn Koryo as their form, and as it's the only 1st dan form that's the reason we then practice the ITF tul.

[YoungMan]

So what you're saying is that the ITF Instructor knows he's attending a WTF school, but the WTF Instructor doesn't know he's attending an ITF school. That's not very above board.

In the name of loyalty and honesty, I would strongly advise your friend to pick a school and stay with it. Going to two different schools, regardless of the intentions, will only lead to conflict.

[CTTKDKing]

I agree. It can cause problems. I don't think there would be any content problems from what he's learn at the 2 schools, but I think if you are going to mix 2 styles in your life then it should be 2 unrelated styles (ex. TKD and Judo). I know his ITF instructor is not happy about it, and I know my instructor wouldn't be happy about it if he found out. I have talked to him on this subject and he didn't seem to worried or phased at all. He says it's no big deal, and that he'll do what he wants. I'm not going to press it because I don't want to get in an argument about it with him, but it has been brought up. I'll leave it to his decision, which like i said I think he's already made.

[YoungMan]

Unfortunately, it will catch up with him eventually in a way that he will not be able to control. And then he will have two Instructors angry at him and most likely not wanting him at either school.

But this is not your problem. This something he will have to deal with. And yes, it is better to study two unrelated disciplines, and well after black belt.

If one of my students were doing that, I would tell them pick one. If you cannot or will not decide, I will decide for you.

[bushido_man96]

In the name of loyalty and honesty, I would strongly advise your friend to pick a school and stay with it. Going to two different schools, regardless of the intentions, will only lead to conflict.

Something like this only leads to conflict when the instructors are too insecure to allow a student to follow their own Martial path, as opposed to being constantly led. If an instructor doesn't approve of such practices, then fine, but I don't see why instructors make such a big deal out of it. As has been seen by this thread, there seems to be gains to be made from attending each school. So why not?

Nobody likes the politics of the Martial Arts, but this kind of division is the very thing that stimulates the politics of the Martial Arts.

[frightmaster]

I would ask your friend to speak with his instructor and explain why he wants to go to the second school. There mnay be a way his instructor can help him. Other then that I would never train in 2 different styles of TKD.

I myself train at 2 physical schools all under the same master. The teachings are the same at both. I asked about learning the ITF forms and after a good discussion I learned that focus should be on improvement on exsistent knowledge as well as my next needed BB form.

[YoungMan]

As I stated previously, I don't have anything against the ITF (other than their misguided belief that Gen. Choi was the founder of TKD-but that's another forum ). However, I do believe in loyalty to your Instructor and organization. Unless your Instructor is incorporating some training from the ITF (or vice versa), it is flat out wrong to go behind his back and train in another TKD style without his express consent and knowlege. And no Instructor I know would allow that.

If you train ITF, you implicitly agree to abide by their training methods and curriculum. If you train WTF, you agree to the same thing. If you train ITF, you must accept the fact that your organization will not be allowed to go to the Olympics. If you desire Olympic or some other Kukkiwon-recognized training, you must quit ITF and train WTF exclusively. You can't have it both ways. To do both is to (a) practice disloyalty to your Instructor and organization and (b) force your body and mind to accept two separate and competing training ideologies.

And is training for Olympic gold (a longshot in itself) worth being disloyal and the troubles it would cause? I think not.

Aside from the fact that Kukkiwon forms and training methods are perfectly adequate in themselves. No need to train another organization to make up for some imaginary shortcomings. Be happy with one or the other.