Opinions on "Japanese" terms in class.

[DWx]

You see, just saying "high block" saves time.

Saves time but is it really that much extra effort to complete the name in Japanese (or Korean)? Fair enough you save yourself that little bit extra breath but I still think the pros outweigh the cons.

[cross]

You see, just saying "high block" saves time.

Saves time but is it really that much extra effort to complete the name in Japanese (or Korean)? Fair enough you save yourself that little bit extra breath but I still think the pros outweigh the cons.

Call it whatever you want, but if you want to learn more about it than what it physically looks like and how to mirror what it looks like, then you should hope you can speak the language of the person teaching you.

[Zanshin]

Well... looks like your view (although entitled to of course) is in the minority.

Just because something seems like a good idea to alot of people, doesnt mean it is. Like alot of things in TMA, it seems that most will teach the terminology in a different language because "thats what i was taught", and the reason their instructor taught them this way is because thats how they were taught. So they are doing it because thats how its always been done, so it must be right? When logically, the best way to teach a person something is to relate it to them in a language they are familiar with.

Actually, your logic is sound, and in the most part I don't disagree with you but, the op asked the question, and the survey said.... most people prefer to use Japanese.

Granted; communication between people is best done in their own tongue particularly if you are explaining very technical aspects of an art. To be honest you could never grasp the finer nuances of Wado if it wasn't explained to you in your own language, so I do take your point.

Is using Japanese in a lesson of westerners completely useless then? No, I don’t think so. As said by others, it is the language of the art in much the same way as French is to dancing. Doesn't make it any better or worse, but most correctly trained dancers would still know what an "arabesque" was without having to look it up on Google!.... Don’t do it, you know you will!

[cross]

Actually, your logic is sound, and in the most part I don't disagree with you but, the op asked the question, and the survey said.... most people prefer to use Japanese.

Im wondering if most people prefer to use japanese, or if that what most people already have to do has a matter of fact in class?? There is a trend in the martial arts where people will do has they are told and then do whatever they can to rationalise what they are already doing.

Something to consider in this whole discussion:

If you follow the fairly standard lineage of "karate" has a martial art, most say something along the lines of:

Originated in china, made its way to okinawa, then to japan, and finally to the rest of the world. You will notice that the okinawan's got rid of most of the chinese terminology, the japanese created there own NON okinawan names for the techniques, yet we for some reason wont adapt the system to our culture and use our own language for everything. Where is the sense in that?

Is using Japanese in a lesson of westerners completely useless then? No, I don’t think so. As said by others, it is the language of the art in much the same way as French is to dancing. Doesn't make it any better or worse, but most correctly trained dancers would still know what an "arabesque" was without having to look it up on Google!.... Don’t do it, you know you will!

No, its not completely useless, but that doesnt mean its what we should be doing. Im trying to fight the temptation.

[harleyt26]

In the style of kobudo I train in the branch dojo are allowed to test the students up to brown belt.For the shodan and up Tamayose sensei will head the test and all commands are in Japanese.If you do not know the technique names in Japanese you will have a very hard time passing his test.

There are also some commands that do not have exact translations,for example tsuri ashi dache.It sort of means closing the gap or shuffeling into the technique keeping the lead foot forward.Other examples could be koshi,gamanku,chinkuchi or trying to explain what and where your tanden is.

Tom Hodges

[Zanshin]

Something to consider in this whole discussion:

If you follow the fairly standard lineage of "karate" has a martial art, most say something along the lines of:

Originated in china, made its way to okinawa, then to japan, and finally to the rest of the world. You will notice that the okinawan's got rid of most of the chinese terminology, the japanese created there own NON okinawan names for the techniques, yet we for some reason wont adapt the system to our culture and use our own language for everything. Where is the sense in that?

There is none, if all you want out of your MA is a self defence and/or sporting application. And that doesn't make you less of martial artist.

My take on the whole "Karate originated in China" thing is a little different in that I believe the individual cultures through which the Eastern Martial arts travelled, added specific and unique qualities a long the way. Furthermore, I don't think that the "Migration" through China into Okinawa and then Japan etc., was quite as black and white, in terms of the "Evolutionary" process that this conjures up.

Like most countries, Japan already had it well established indigenous martial systems that were codified long before the art of To-de started to emerge out of Okinawa.

I am not qualified to talk about the Okinawan Karate styles, but I do know that Wado is more Japanese than it is Okinawan (due to its Jujutsu parentage). My feelings are that when Ohtsuka created Wado by blending Okinawan Karate with his Shindo Yoshin Ryu knowlege, he created something that was completely new at that point. It did not exist before. He did it using a uniquely "Japanese" / Koryu flavour.

(Just out of interest, whilst Funakoshi changed the names of a lot of Katas from Chinese to Japanese to make them more palatable, Wado's Ohtsuka converted them back into their original Chinese names.)

So getting back to the point, for me at least, I am learning a specific type of Karate with a unique school of thought. Understanding the terminology (what it means and not just using it for the sake of it) is (in my view) key to getting the most out of it.

I agree with you, it is not necessary, if all you want to do is become a technician. If you want more depth and become skilled in a particular traditional school, it is priceless.

I think that (knowing what I know now), if I was given the option at the beginning of my career as to whether I wanted to be taught exclusively in English, I would still chose to be taught using Japanese terms (as long as these are correctly explained).

Horses for courses I suppose.

[bushido_man96]

You see, just saying "high block" saves time.

Saves time but is it really that much extra effort to complete the name in Japanese (or Korean)? Fair enough you save yourself that little bit extra breath but I still think the pros outweigh the cons.

What it boils down to is the fact that my students speak English, and not Korean.

[DWx]

You see, just saying "high block" saves time.

Saves time but is it really that much extra effort to complete the name in Japanese (or Korean)? Fair enough you save yourself that little bit extra breath but I still think the pros outweigh the cons.

What it boils down to is the fact that my students speak English, and not Korean.

If you learn the Korean names right from the beginning, its no more difficult than learning the names in English. IMO you don't need to learn the names in English at all as long as you are unstanding what the Korean/Japanese/Chinese... names mean.

[bushido_man96]

If you learn the Korean names right from the beginning, its no more difficult than learning the names in English. IMO you don't need to learn the names in English at all as long as you are unstanding what the Korean/Japanese/Chinese... names mean.

Then, if you spend any time talking to anyone outside of the Martial Arts, you have to translate everything for them. In English, they can get a general idea of what you are talking about.

[DisgruntledGirl]

IMO you don't need to learn the names in English at all as long as you are unstanding what the Korean/Japanese/Chinese... names mean.

Ah see. That was one of my points too. For some it might be more difficult having to learn the new words... but for me... someone who had never learned any kind of fighting art before... heck, I did not know what a "revearse" punch was, and I had to be told what a "roundhouse" kick is so whether you teach me gyaku or revearse, mawashi or roundhouse... meh... learning the japanese is realy no harder.

Now if you had learned another fighting art in english I can see how it might seem harder cus you already had the english terms to go on.

I see both sides of the argument. I can see why some find it "pointless", its just that I do not. Sure other sports get by with only "needing" to use their own language (I liked the dance reference though, even though I do not dance) but to me thats what gives a lot of MAs their edge in that most people no matter where you are from, no matter what language you speak if you study Karate you will know what an instructor is asking you to do, (even if you dont speak his language or he yours) if he asks you to do a mawashi geri.

I still see others points in that you will still need a translation to get the finer points of what he is teaching if it is a true seminar... but to start out the class, for him to see where you are at already, all he needs to do is say a few words and no translation is ever needed, you just do what he says and from there on it can be determined how much translation is needed.