Opinions on "Japanese" terms in class.

[DWx]

To emphasise my earlier point (several pages back), I will be attending a seminar this weekend where its open to all countries to attend. The seminar will be conducted entirely in Korean because not everyone speaks English but everyone should know the Korean. The attending masters will be Korean too and its just out of courtesy that we learn from them in their own language.

[Zanshin]

Similarly, I am due to attend a seminar In Germany in a few weeks time, and although I dont "Sprechen Sie Deutsch" hopefully I will have no problem with training cause it'll all be in Japanese.

[bushido_man96]

To emphasise my earlier point (several pages back), I will be attending a seminar this weekend where its open to all countries to attend. The seminar will be conducted entirely in Korean because not everyone speaks English but everyone should know the Korean. The attending masters will be Korean too and its just out of courtesy that we learn from them in their own language.

This is only true to a point. The only thing that will be mentioned in Korean (or Japanese, in Zanshin's case) are the techniques, and whatever other nuances are spoken in the native tongue of the style. Therefore, if you want any clarification, or anything else explained to you "in depth," you are going to be screwed unless you have a translator, or they speak your language. That is why I don't buy into the whole "language of the style" stuff.

[DWx]

To emphasise my earlier point (several pages back), I will be attending a seminar this weekend where its open to all countries to attend. The seminar will be conducted entirely in Korean because not everyone speaks English but everyone should know the Korean. The attending masters will be Korean too and its just out of courtesy that we learn from them in their own language.

This is only true to a point. The only thing that will be mentioned in Korean (or Japanese, in Zanshin's case) are the techniques, and whatever other nuances are spoken in the native tongue of the style. Therefore, if you want any clarification, or anything else explained to you "in depth," you are going to be screwed unless you have a translator, or they speak your language. That is why I don't buy into the whole "language of the style" stuff.

On one's I've been to before they translated what they needed to do. Most explaination was done through actions like showing us the "right" way and then wrong ways or getting volunteers up who were corrected in front of the group. The best one I've been to was GM Choi Jung Hwa who actually went round the lines of some 200 people and adjusted where appropriate (he does spent fluent English though).

[bushido_man96]

So you kind of prove my point. The language of the art is not, or shouldn't, from my point of view, be that mandatory. When you really need help, they either have to be translated, or demonstrate physically. Even through physical demonstration, you may not be able to pick up exactly what the demonstrator is getting at.

[DWx]

So you kind of prove my point. The language of the art is not, or shouldn't, from my point of view, be that mandatory. When you really need help, they either have to be translated, or demonstrate physically. Even through physical demonstration, you may not be able to pick up exactly what the demonstrator is getting at.

After the seminar I attended this weekend I am even more convinced that the terminology should be learnt. The master did not speak much English at all and had an interpreter who explained the various bits and pieces to us. However, Master Hwang was able to completely command the class by himself in Korean, telling us to turn around, go back one move, perform X move, etc. We saved a lot of time not having to have it translated and especially when not everyone uses the same name for a particular technique. For example, the roundhouse can also be called the turning kick but the standard Korean name for it is "dollyo chagi".

When people were asking questions too, all you had to do was say the name of the technique and which bit you were unsure of and Master Hwang explain it all without having to waste time with the interpreter. There were some people who tried to ask him in English and quite often it took a while for his assistant to explain what technique we meant.

There was also some confusion at one point because Master Hwang could not understand why a lot of people were doing hooking block with a sort of "hooking" motion on the end. Turned out that the Koreans have 2 different words for "hooking" and when translated into English the full meaning isn't conveyed. There were also quite a few concepts that English doesn't have a word for and the interpreter was trying really hard to say it in English, however when Master Hwang gave up and said the Korean words to us we understood better.

Master Hwang was also explaining how all of the Korean names tell you how to do the techniques. For example, a punching technique is always called a "jirigi". We were told how the first part of this word conveys to you that there has to be a rotation or twist at the end. You can now apply that to such a technique as side piercing kick as that is called yop cha jirigi which means there should be a slight rotation of the foot on impact.

[tori]

I do feel learning the proper term for a movement, stance, kata etc... in its native form is important. It should be used in class, but not be considered mandatory to earn a rank. If I decided to attend a shotokan training outside of my facility and could not follow the head instructor because he was using japanese terms, what would that say about me as a nidan?

[cross]

I do feel learning the proper term for a movement, stance, kata etc... in its native form is important. It should be used in class, but not be considered mandatory to earn a rank. If I decided to attend a shotokan training outside of my facility and could not follow the head instructor because he was using japanese terms, what would that say about me as a nidan?

Consider that if every english speaking instructor used only english then you wouldnt have a problem at all.

Also keep in mind that in most schools that use terminology from the native language of the system, they often have 2 names for the same thing, i.e. the name of the technique in the systems native language, and then the name of the technique in the instructors/students native language. So in my opinion, cut out the language that you dont normally speak and streamline the system to avoid confusion.

[DWx]

I do feel learning the proper term for a movement, stance, kata etc... in its native form is important. It should be used in class, but not be considered mandatory to earn a rank. If I decided to attend a shotokan training outside of my facility and could not follow the head instructor because he was using japanese terms, what would that say about me as a nidan?

Consider that if every english speaking instructor used only english then you wouldnt have a problem at all.

Also keep in mind that in most schools that use terminology from the native language of the system, they often have 2 names for the same thing, i.e. the name of the technique in the systems native language, and then the name of the technique in the instructors/students native language. So in my opinion, cut out the language that you dont normally speak and streamline the system to avoid confusion.

But you still need an International standard language so that instructors from outside your native tongue can teach you. If you are in say a Japanese system then there are plenty of Japanese masters/teachers who would be definiately worth having a lesson off, you can't expect them to teach you in English if they aren't fluent. If you go to Europe or Aisa or wherever to train then if everyone knows a standard name for each technique life is going to be so much easier. You won't have to spend time messing around with translating the words "front punch" and can just get on with it. It makes sense (IMO anyway) for everyone, whatever country your from and whatever language you speak, to know one name per technique so that you can communicate. And if you have to pick that one language to communicate in then why not pick the language it where it comes from because chances are there are going to be more practitioners/teachers/masters speaking it natively.

[cross]

But you still need an International standard language so that instructors from outside your native tongue can teach you. If you are in say a Japanese system then there are plenty of Japanese masters/teachers who would be definiately worth having a lesson off, you can't expect them to teach you in English if they aren't fluent. If you go to Europe or Aisa or wherever to train then if everyone knows a standard name for each technique life is going to be so much easier. You won't have to spend time messing around with translating the words "front punch" and can just get on with it. It makes sense (IMO anyway) for everyone, whatever country your from and whatever language you speak, to know one name per technique so that you can communicate. And if you have to pick that one language to communicate in then why not pick the language it where it comes from because chances are there are going to be more practitioners/teachers/masters speaking it natively.

This is something ive never understood. Lets say for example you are an english speaking student and you go to a japanese school to learn karate, with no knowledge of the japanese language other than the technique names you know from your english speaking country.

The instructor is attempting to explain the finer points of a technique, take age uke(rising block) for example.

So the instructor says in japanese: One of the most important principles of age uke is to drive not only with the arm, but also with the hips.

So out of the instructors explanation of the technique, the only thing you will understand is the "age uke", which doesnt really help.

So logically, it makes more sense to me that if you want to learn a system in a different country(just like doing anything else in another country) learn the language of the country. Because chances are that knowing a few technique names will be of little or no use, unless you can understand everything else that is being said in between.