Martial Arts in U.S.A.

[GoGoGo]

I think Martial arts in the U.S. costs too much to make it efficient. The U.S. doesn't seem like a good place for it at all. For example, in Thailand, there are "gyms" or whatever you wanna call them; practice places where poor people live. They practice there whenever they want because they live there and that's pretty much what they do in life. There are other ones though where people don't live, but over there it's like going to a park and playing basketball here.

But here in the U.S., you can't just "go to the park and practice martial arts" like that. Well, you could... But who does? There, many people. You can just jump right in.

Here, not so many, so you have to go to a dojo which charges like $100+ per month. Then of course you gotta buy gloves... Not just any gloves, but the ones they want you to buy. $20-30... Helmet, $100, and whatever else you need. The dojo I went to even made you pay for a new belt that you supposedly "earned", made you pay for tournament entry, a trivial little patch for the uniform, and the list goes on and on...

In my opinion, this is ridiculous and it kills the whole thing. The instructor I had is seriously world reknown, was an Olympic referee and one of the few Karate guys left who know all 60 whatever Kata in addition to knowing the heir of Shito-Ryu Karate closely.

While that's all good, that still doesn't justify the price in my opinion. I come from a family where my dad is an idiot and doesn't want to support his family. If I were in Thailand or other parts of Asia, I could go practice Martial arts. Here, I can't... Why? Because you need to pay a monthly fee, probably need insurance, and all this other trash just cuz we're in the U.S.A.

Now, as an individual educated in economics, I fully understand. I know that prices are high because if they weren't, people couldn't stay in business. I know all about building leasing, bills, etc... So I'm not angry at the individuals who do these things... I'm just saying the U.S. system doesn't seem to be ideal for martial arts... At least in my area. The government provides basketball and baseball locations and equipment in my area for free. I think this would be needed for martial arts to truely "take off" here.

It just sucks how something so cool was ruined for me because of high prices. When in fact in the originating countries, the poorer people are the ones who probably do it most anyway.

Anyone have any input? Advice?

[The BB of C]

I believe you're right in a sense of that the martial arts have become very commerical in the United States. We have a name on this forum for commercial schools. They're called McDojos.

Also, training in the states is often watered down to make it "safe." Which I don't understand because the people who train the full styles in the other countries seem to be doing fine.

[bushido_man96]

I don't believe that training in the U.S. is as watered down as many would have us believe. Look at MMA training, for one. Boxing would be another.

I have been doing TKD training for now on 14 years, and have never trained at a school that cost $100 per month. I pay $60 per month now, and that includes both school and gym memberships.

The reason that you don't see MA practices going on for free in the U.S. is because the U.S. is a different culture. If you look around and watch kids play, you may see them wrestling. As we grow older, we tend to reduce the amount of these things that we do, and replace them with other activities.

[marie curie]

I think- and maybe its because I've been on the college-ish scene for a while, but whatever- that you can usually find a black belt in something that is willing to teach you for the cost of being his uke I've been taking Kajukenbo, Judo, and TKD from people for free for years now. You just have to search them out. The kajukenbo guy above my instructor even came to do a seminar with us for a free dinner and transportation.

Now if you want to promote in something thru an organizaion, yeh it can get costly.

[tke010]

GoGoGo,

I guess that I am a unique case. I am currently Teaching Shaolin Kempo to 30 children (6-17yrs of age) free of charge. (I do have a day job that pays my bills). I love martial arts and I am willing to teach it to anyone who is willing to learn. Each of these kids has to maintain at least a "B" average in school, listen and obey their parents, and help out around the Dojo and church.

I do charge a fee to the people that can afford it, but i don't turn ones away who cannot.

You should go to some local dojos and ask them if you can train. Instead of money, ask if you can clean up around the dojo or do yard work for the black belts in return for lessons.

Martial artists that truely love teaching will try and come up with something. Yes, we do have to put food on the table and pay bills, but most schools will train a person or 2 if they see the love for the art is there.

[marie curie]

tke 010, on behalf of a student who takes MA for free, thanks for providing the service!

[shinbushi]

1. The kinds of gyms you're talking about in Thailand where "poor people" live and just train for free are for fighters. I trained in Por Pramuk 3 months ago, and trained in muangsurin in the 90s before it closed down, so i'm not speaking out of my bum.

These people fight because they have to fight, to support there families. In many cases there families send them to these camps as kids because the families can't afford to support them and figure they're better off at a thaiboxing camp. This is a rough way to come up and yes it creates some awesome thaiboxers by the age of 18 but at what cost...an 18 /o with 150-200+ fights in the ring...

2. My second question to this is how can a Shito Ryu instructor be an olympic referee...for what sport? jr. olympics? I competed in Jr. Olympics when I was in Shito Ryu, usankf nationals, etc. USANKF is affiliated with the USOC/united states olympic comittee, but that's as far as it goes. Many Shito Ryu sensei know "all 60 kata"(there are more), the ones I trained under, Thiery, Minakami, Demura, and Hayashi(rip)did, anyway. What I'm saying is, this individual isn't a karate olympic referee.

Charging $100 isn't bad at all, if you can't afford it, don't train...this isn't just in the USA, this is world wide. Do you think Poor people in Thailand go and train at kratingdeng, m-150 stadium gym, fairtex, dutch boy, etc? Hardly..Muay Thai can be costly here in the USA. Go train under under Master Toddy privately and $100 a month isn't anything.

$20-30 on gloves is a lot? a good pair of Thaiboxing gloves is going to cost you 70-100, easy.

Personally, I'm sick of people that complain about paying $100+ a month if they're training 3-5 days a week under an instructor that has actual experience. A legit instructor that can actually fight is hard to find in the USA, trust me on this. I really have no idea why you think that the shito ryu instructor you described is one of the few left that knows all "60 kata".

If you want to train in shito ryu, shotokan, etc. go check out your local rec centers and you can probably find an instructor that is a shodan-sandan for relatively cheap. Train in wrestling, boxing, etc. too, these "sports" usually don't cost that much. When you get a job and have the means, seek out more expensive instruction but shop smart. Obviously there are a lot of fakes in the martial art world that ask for a lot more then they are worth but the legit ones do deserve $100-150 a month....in the USA.

[bushido_man96]

One thing you have to consider is the consumer mindset in the U.S. Many consumers have a "get what you pay for" mindset. If you have several schools in one are, and one is free, and the rest charge, then they may wonder why one is free. I am not saying this is always the case, though.

As for instructors who offer free classes to some, but not to others, may show favoritism; this may offend actual paying students. I do understand that at times there are exceptions made for special students. However, there is something to be said about consistency, too. If an instructor does favors for one, and not others, it may brew hard feelings within the school.

In the end, you have to be professional, as well.

[TigerDude]

I think that if you didn't mind living like all those guys in Thailand who train "for free," then getting $100+ a month for fees wouldn't be a problem. The problem isn't Dojo fees, it's all the other things we decide that we need & then spend our money on.

[Montana]

One thing you have to consider is the consumer mindset in the U.S. Many consumers have a "get what you pay for" mindset. If you have several schools in one are, and one is free, and the rest charge, then they may wonder why one is free. I am not saying this is always the case, though.

From my own experiences, this can be very true. Both myself and my origional sensei tried to give free classes after we both had been charging for several years. In both instances, the class size dropped well below half of what it was when we were charging for classes (no contacts were ever used) within a month or two and only the really serious students came on a regular basis.

American mindset is "You get what you pay for" quite often.

As to quality of instruction in the US, well, several high ranking masters in Okinawa said a number of years ago that it wouldn't be long before you'd have to travel to the US to find true Okinawan karate-do. Not all instructors and systems in the US have gone over to the dark side for financial gain vs quality instruction. I've been teaching classes since 1978 and except for a 3 year attempt, which wasn't very successful, have never tried to make any money at it other than to cover expenses.