Central Intelligence Agency Fighting Style

[Johnlogic121]

I am a scientific researcher and developer for the Central Intelligence Agency. I have over a dozen years of martial arts experience that I have compiled into a martial art called Montgomery Style Karate. The style is about fourteen months old and Central Intelligence Agency agents have already used the style in over 5,000 fighting encounters globally. Over seventy-five percent of these engagements were clearly fights to the death. Montgomery Style Karate has performed extremely well. Agents using the style have won 98% of their battles. As of the last report, their were only fifty persons globally who have beaten the style. The style is also taught to the U.S. Military. U.S. Navy SEALS have commented that the style seems to have "perfected combat". Until this style became regularly used in American espionage circles, the martial art of choice for world espionage agents was some form of Bujinkan Ninjutsu. In controlled testing Montgomery Style Karate beats Bujinkan Ninjutsu thoroughly. In this style, it is possible to become "good" in twelve weeks and to become an "expert" in one year. This style is considered so effective that it may represent the last great upgrade in global martial art fighting technology. The style actually is a mixed martial art that owes more in its development to the teachings of Bujinkan Ninjutsu veterans than to teachers of karate styles. The nations of the world are converting their hand-to-hand combat programs to forms of traditional and modern karate with results that are slow up to this point. In the future, this style may be taught to police officers nationally before it becomes taught openly to the general public, if that day ever comes. The problem with teaching the style outside of the CIA or law enforcement is that groups hostile to the United States would love to have the offensive and defensive skills of this style of martial arts. Any style taught to U.S. civilians can easily be learned by agents of foreign governments. Nevertheless, this style is effective for people of all weight classes and can provide superior defense. Even though most effective martial arts are described with adjectives like "reliable," "natural," and "powerful," this style is also described as inherently "intelligent" in its design. I have a question for the forum. Would you like to see this special martial art taught openly, or in a mixed form with some other martial art under another name, or should it be reserved only for military and CIA officials who protect America? On the one hand, it could provide superior self-defense against rape or assault. On the other hand, it could take away an advantage that we have currently against other nations with different styles.

[Montana]

If you have a webpage, I'd sure love to see it.

[username8517]

Could you please provide any proof to the claims you make about it:

• - Employment by CIA
   
  - 98% success rate in fights of which 75% where to the death
   
  - Used in over 5,000 encounters globally in under 14 months
   
  - What branches of the US Military and Seals is it taught to as well as what sectors of the CIA
   
  - The ability to become a "expert" and have "perfected combat" within one year
   
  - This style is considered so effective that it may represent the last great upgrade in global martial art fighting technology
   
  - Until this style became regularly used in American espionage circles, the martial art of choice for world espionage agents was some form of Bujinkan Ninjutsu
   
  - Nations of the world are converting their hand-to-hand combat programs to forms of traditional and modern karate with results that are slow up to this point

I would also be interested in reading any website and reports you may have about it as well. And I doubt all of this stuff would be confidential since you're already out here on an open forum offering up open information already between this thread and the Blocking & Parrying thread (but yet have to keep it secret from terrorists and hostiles)

[bushido_man96]

I am curious as to how you do your controlled testing. It seems to me that there are so many "fad" styles that come around every so many years that are used for some agency or governmental department usage.

There really aren't that many fighting secrets out there. What it really boils down to is training methodologies. I don't see how it could be much different than other RBSD systems.

[DWx]

Mr Logic, do you have any videos on the web or even action shots? I'd be interested to see your Montgomery Style Karate in action.

Also, the 98% success rate... not that I know too much about the inner workings of the CIA but... are we talking 98% of fights where firearms were not in use or what? And are we talking fights vs. other people trained in combat or fights against untrained threats?

[ps1]

If such a style exists I do not think it should be released. Not because of it's "perfect combat" status, but because it's totally unnecessary. People have been hurting each other since we first started walking this earth. There are only so many ways to do it. I'm willing to bet that the system you speak of is nothing new. As Bushido said, it's probably the same as most Reality Based Self Defense Systems.

However, what self defense systems and classes need isn't more techniques or even more deadly techniques. They need to teach that self defense isn't about hurting another person. They are about preventing another person from hurting you. This includes situation avoidance and prevention methods. Many people get into problems because they make foolish decisions or have foolish habits. These are the more practical self defense tools.

If you actually have another system that works very well I'm happy that my fellow soldiers are using it. But civilians don't need another "perfect combat" system. They are not combatants.

[NightOwl]

Johnlogic121,

I will address your poll in two answers. The first is as if such a system exists, which if it does I as a martial artist/ enthusiast would have to question the results of the system that you are presenting. Firstly, no conditions where given on the tests themselves, just that they had a success rate of over 90%. Were they against trained or untrained opponents? Armed or unarmed? Where the participants roughly the same weight or different? Secondly, give me a person trained in an 'ultimate system', and I'll give you someone in a different style who is a better fighter, regardless of style. Finally, the only thing someone could become an expert in in a year is tying shoes (I'm still working on it).

My second answer is addressing this post as a fake style, and that is what I am leaning towards at the moment...for several reasons. Firstly, if your claims on the numbers of successful encounters are correct (over 5000 with 50 losses...we'll say 5,230), the CIA combatants won over 99.9% of the time- a hard to swallow number. Secondly, hand to hand combat is ALWAY ALWAYS ALWAYS a very last resort when you have something called weapons. Navy seals would be idiotic to try and grapple with an enemy, rather than stab or snipe them with a silenced shot, and the argument that they need to to get a live prisoner is not valid as you say that agents are settling 75% of over 5000 encounters with deadly force. If your job is to be covert, you cannot afford to get into a hand to hand fight- many times, you can't afford to get into any sort of combat period. Navy seals are more professional then that. Thirdly, CIA agents hardly get involved in combat- rare is the occasion that they do- even during the height of the cold war. That's what guerrilla training and hired locals are for. Field agents are not real life versions of james bond ( the CIA is not as sophisticated and as well run as you may think). Fourthly, if this truely was top secret, then you are guilty of leaking goverment secrets and could face up to a lifetime in jail. Finally, this is the internet- and as such someone claiming to be a super secret agent and the grandmaster of a secret stlye rings off all sorts of alarm bells

[Montana]

Finally, this is the internet- and as such someone claiming to be a super secret agent and the grandmaster of a secret stlye rings off all sorts of alarm bells

Agreed.

[Johnlogic121]

This is the First Grandmaster of Montgomery Style Karate. The success of our style is truly real. Part of the reason why the style is successful is because when I created it I was already America's top research scientist.

In fact, over 90% of police department precincts have been trained in this style and they are seeing 95% victory in their fights. The police officers only receive eight one-hour lessons that emphasize throwing and grappling as much as striking. Around the country, the chance that an officer will be attacked by someone he is arresting varies between 1% and 10% and the chance that the attacker will attempt to kill the officer varies between 1% and 3%. This style is saving many cops from being beaten to death by assailiants.

We don't have a webpage, but if we did, it would contain much the same information I have revealed in the forum.

This style differs from Reality Based Self Defense courses in its effectiveness, primarily. I have reviewed the Internet literature for three Reality Based Self Defense styles and without further details of what those styles look like I cannot comment on how their methods differ from those in Montgomery Style Karate. However, I have been told that no other style known to the CIA resembles Montgomery Style Karate and our effectiveness in fights does seem to come from our unique system design rather than good physical training (push-ups, sit-ups, et cetera).

Civilians can train in the famous SCARS system now and enjoy a 60% overall success rate using the methods of that system. When Bujinkan Ninjutsu was deployed on a large scale in the U. S. Military years ago, it only saw a 40% success rate, losing 3 times out of 5.

The French have started to apply Montgomery Style Karate with a success rate of 99.8%. Britain also uses the style with a 99% success rate. Thus, from the source document materials, Britain and France have constructed training programs that are even more effective than those of the United States. The US beats standard Russian espionage agents 98% of the time and beats Chinese martial artists 96% of the time. China has used some espionage to gain some of our source material documents but does not have the entire style. On average, the US Intelligence forces beat world class agents around 97% of the time.

I have asked my teachers and students to take some time to post to the forum with testimonials, but so far everybody seems to think that the postings are a joke around here and not worthy of a response. The consensus even from the poll I offerred is that the style should probably remain a secret from the general public. The success of police officers with the style would be undermined if college students nationwide could study this art for about a year. Our teaching is at such an accelerated rate that the whole syllabus can be learned in a year's time with ample time left for reinforcement. Because the system is inherently simple, the main document is only forty pages long.

We are in the process of adopting Belt Rankings for Montgomery Style Karate. Police officers with eight one hour classes are beating contemporary martial artists 95% of the time, so we are considering awarding them yellow belts after they complete the introductory course. Obviously, they could be awarded black belts based on a comparison against their martial artist peers, but even I feel that giving out black belts after eight lessons is too unorthodox to fit with tradition. Usually, the first belt rank in a martial art takes one to three months, if not a full six months, but the capability level of our people is revolutionizing prior conceptions of how long it takes to get good at martial arts. We get good rapidly.

We teach lethal and non-lethal fighting sequences by the hundreds. People with limited creativity or limited martial arts ability can still learn our art as well as they can learn to do the fighting forms. As the great master Doctor Hatsumi once said, "Any idiot can do forms." Thus, we show students exactly what to do. Applying a seqeunce is as easy as selecting a routine and then carrying it out. The design of our forms makes interruption of a fighting sequence difficult.

Usually, we tend to kill opponents with average of ten strikes in an average duration of five seconds flat. Usually we finish with a throw and our grappling is good but used more seldom. We are trying to encourage students to capture opponents more often. In comparison, the military used to say that contemporary military arts took thirty strikes on average to kill an opponent. Obviously, our instruction in accurate and precise pressure point striking is superb. Most schools let you punch in the air a thousand times before they give advice to improve the form of your punching. Our instructors provide the necessary feedback that is so vital to improving performance.

Chuck Norris came from a Tang Soo Do school that used to practice blocking drills for eighty percent of the total practice time, and he won the World Karate Championships five years in a row. We dodge and block in a variety of effective drills that let us practice real attacks and real defenses simultaneously with two partners. Rather than just run through the drills endlessly, students are tested thoroughly so that real skills are emphasized. We also do randori and spar heavily.

Our art is changing some with new innovations over time, but we are clearly exploring what is termed a new martial way. Montgomery Style Karate is as different from other styles of karate as Judo or Aikido is different from karate.

Our teachers really make the difference. If you get the chance to ask a soldier or a police officer in the upcoming years about Montgomery Style Karate, see what he or she can tell you. Currently, the CIA considers it the best style in the world.

[username8517]

Johnlogic121, could you please validate the claims that were made:

• - The style is successful is because when I created it I was already America's top research scientist
   
  - Over 90% of police department precincts have been trained in this style and they are seeing 95% victory in their fights
   
  - Figures and statistics showing that the correllation between percentage chance of a police officer being assaulted during an arrest and consequencely, what perentage of those are life & death situations
   
  - SCARS trained civilians have a 60% success rate
   
  - The US Military, using Bujinkan Ninjutsu, only had a 40% success rate
   
  - French have started to apply Montgomery Style Karate with a success rate of 99.8%
   
  - Britain also uses the style with a 99% success rate
   
  - US beats standard Russian espionage agents 98% of the time and beats Chinese martial artists 96% of the time
   
  - China has used some espionage to gain some of our source material documents but does not have the entire style
   
  - US Intelligence forces beat world class agents around 97% of the time
   
  - Police officers with eight one hour classes are beating contemporary martial artists 95% of the time
   
  - We tend to kill opponents with average of ten strikes in an average duration of five seconds flat
   
  - The military used to say that contemporary military arts took thirty strikes on average to kill an opponent
   
  - Currently, the CIA considers it the best style in the world

Also, I was wondering if you would please address the claims made previously. I have quoted my previous post (listed below) so all questions I have are together in one post. Furthermore, you briefly mentioned that you didn't have a website for me to look at, do you have any medical documentation or research reports you could point me to?

Could you please provide any proof to the claims you make about it:

• - Employment by CIA
   
  - 98% success rate in fights of which 75% where to the death
   
  - Used in over 5,000 encounters globally in under 14 months
   
  - What branches of the US Military and Seals is it taught to as well as what sectors of the CIA
   
  - The ability to become a "expert" and have "perfected combat" within one year
   
  - This style is considered so effective that it may represent the last great upgrade in global martial art fighting technology
   
  - Until this style became regularly used in American espionage circles, the martial art of choice for world espionage agents was some form of Bujinkan Ninjutsu
   
  - Nations of the world are converting their hand-to-hand combat programs to forms of traditional and modern karate with results that are slow up to this point

I would also be interested in reading any website and reports you may have about it as well. And I doubt all of this stuff would be confidential since you're already out here on an open forum offering up open information already between this thread and the Blocking & Parrying thread (but yet have to keep it secret from terrorists and hostiles)

Finally, since you have mentioned potentially releasing information to the public, could I please obtain a copy of your 40-manual so I may review it and present an substantiated opinion on Montgomery Style Karate for others.

Thank you in advance.