Firearms???

[Withers M.A.A.]

How can you regulate illegal weapons? if you want to kill someone and you don't have a gun you can still kill them. So should we ban knives, swrords, cars, and everything else that can kill someone?

 

I didn't think so....

 

We should also ban karate cause there are techniques that can kill people

 

 

[Iron Arahat]

The UK's homicide rate is less than the United States firearm homicide rate, and I would find that scary that I am more likely to get shot in the US than die in the United Kingdom.

 

True you don't need a gun to kill someone, but to the same extent it easier to kill someone with a gun than your bare hands. This is also why the US's suicide rate is higher, people who want to kill themselves have access to more lethal means, and are therfore more successful at attempts. You can save someone who has slashed up rather than blown their head off their shoulders.

 

I guess you comfortable that over 17,000 people die each year at the end of a gun in the US.

 

What about the children of the US? Homicides in 1997, 1464 of them occurred among U.S. children. Of these homicides 86% involved a firearm. Furthermore, the homicide rate for children in the United States was five times higher than that for children in the other 25 countries combined (2.57 per 100,000 compared with 0.51). (World Bank Development Report, New York).

 

But I guess statistic and thousands of people dying each year from a preventable cause is less important than America's 2nd Amendment, because the right to bare arms is more important than a person's right to live his life.

[Withers M.A.A.]

What about all the law abiding citizens who save their lives each year from the thugs out there. So that doesn't account for anything. Again, if you want to kill yourself you don't need a gun.

 

People kill people not guns!!!

 

 

[Iron Arahat]

I think all the facts I have used to support my opinion, make a good point.

 

But since you wish to continue without supporting you argument with fact:

 

In the United States in 1998 the following statistic applies to victims of crime, a half of the victims defending themselves with a firearm suffered an injury, compared to almost one-fifth of those who defended themselves with weapons other than a firearm or who had no weapon. (Uniform Crime Report)

 

There are over 340,000 firearm thefts per year in the US. Maybe if everyone didn't have a gun, there wouldn't be so many illegal firearms.

 

Gun Injuries and Deaths Among Young People:

 

- In 1998,10 young people a day died from gunshot in the US.

 

- Gun homicide is the fourth leading cause of death for young people 10-14 years of age and the second leading cause of death for young people 15-24. [National Center for Health Statistics, 1997.]

 

- Gunshot wounds are the leading cause of death for both African-American and white teenage males [Journal of the American Medical Association].

 

- One in six parents say they know a child who accidentally shot himself or herself with a gun [Harvard School of Public Health].

 

-Suicide is nearly 5 times more likely to occur in a household with a gun than in a household without a gun. [Kellerman, A.L. et al., N Engl J Med 327, 1993.]

 

- Guns kept in the home for self-protection are 43 times more likely to kill a family member or friend than to kill in self-defense. [ Kellermann and Reay, N.E. Journal of Medicine]

 

Best keep that gun under the bed...

[Iron Arahat]

As for all the law abiding citizens saved, well lets weigh that out:

 

In 1998, for every time a woman used a handgun to kill in self-defense, 101 women were murdered with a handgun.

 

In 1998, for every time a woman used a handgun to kill an intimate acquaintance in self-defense, 83 woman were murdered by an intimate acquaintance with a handgun.

 

In 1998, for every time a woman used a handgun to kill a stranger in self-defense, 302 woman were murdered with a handgun.

 

It seems that you are more likely to die than kill in self defence from a firearm. Not to mention that there is a 50% chance that you will get injured in comparison if you use a gun in self defence in comparison to 20% for those who don't.

 

Another issue is that 80% of manufactured guns in the world are produced in the United States.

 

A whopping 92% of illegal firearms in the US are originated in the US (go figure). Even in Canada 86% of illegal firearms are traced back to the United States as an intitial purchase point. Where it was initially legally obtained. Traced guns come from many countries across the globe. However worldwide, 78% of the guns that were traced originated in the United States (FBI Bulliten)

 

So the way I see this is that the US is contributing to the distribution of illegal firearms accross the globe. Maybe if the US had tighter gun laws we would see a decrease in homicide involving firearms. Maybe if the US didn't produce so many guns, it wouldn't be an issue at all. But the point still remains that due to lax gun control laws, guns are an issue in society. To me it is evident that the 2nd ammendment contributes immensly to the black-market economy of firearms.

[Withers M.A.A.]

There are already so many laws in place. You know all these useless statistics. Just know that there is a handgun for every man wonan and child in this country. I would feel much safer knowing that lawful citizens are carrying them. My guns are locked up when I'm not using them. It is people like you who are so scared of handguns that have prob. never even been to a range.

 

At every firearms range I've ever been to the people are just like Martial Artist and are VERY polite, nice, and helpful. Again, these are lawful gun owners like myself. You make it sound like guns are the killers but again it is People who kill people.

 

If you keep this topic going we will argue tooth and nail cause I will NEVER EVER agree with any of your beliefs on this and I'm sure you are the same with mine.

 

 

[Iron Arahat]

I never said that you are not entitled to your opinion, no matter how unsupported it is with emperical evidence.

 

You state you would feel safer that law abiding citizens were carrying guns. How can one achieve that. I imagine through tighter regulation, like the UK.

 

The statistics are real, not usless, they are indicators of a problem.

 

Whithers stated "It is people like you who are so scared of handguns that have prob. never even been to a range."

 

To the contrary I think you have no clue. You know litte about me. The fact of the matter is I have been to a range, and probably have had better training than yourself in the use of firearms.

 

Your right that people are killers, but it the access that they have to lethal means that makes them more successful. It's easier to kill someone with a gun than with your bare hands.

 

You may never agree with any of my belief, but at least my opinions are supported by facts.

[Withers M.A.A.]

I highly doubt you have had more training in handguns than I have. I can almost guarantee it...

 

More people are killed in automobiles than any other means and esp. through drunk driving. Should we not be allowed to drive either?

 

 

[Iron Arahat]

Maryland - MOTOR VEHICLE INJURY DEATHS 673 FIREARM INJURY DEATHS 760

 

Louisiana - Cars -899 /Firearms - 1,087

 

Arizona - Cars - 977 /Firearms - 986

 

Nevada - Cars - 298 /Firearms - 398

 

Alaska - Cars -88 / Firearms -122

 

California - Cars 4,314 / Firearms - 4,805

 

District of Columbia - Cars 67 / Firearms - 269

 

These are from National Center for Health Statistics, data from the National Vital Statistics system. Statistic Year 1995.

 

I guess automobiles are not the #1 killer in all of the US states.

 

The stats here are actually pretty close, I wish I had the information on impaireds for the same period. People who get caught for impaired in Canada at least do lose their driving priviledges, and can get jail time. Kill someone wiwhile impaired you will get charged with Manslaughter.

 

So banning driving priviledges for drunk drivers protects society, and I'm all for that. As for a direct comparison between driving in general and firearms is a weak if not childish comparison (Lets ban stairs cause people fall down them and die).

 

If you like throwing out random statements and generallities you may wish to support you arguments with some research.

 

As for the training whatever floats your boat, thinking you get the same training as enforcement officials leads me to believe that you are a civillian, but I could be wrong.

 

With generalized statements such as "people like you" indicates to me that you are closed minded towards the subject. Because I'd like to know what people like me, specifically me are all about.

[Withers M.A.A.]

Well Mr. Statistic you t hink by throwing numbers around that makes you know so much. Statistics don't mean anything... Luckily for me I own firearms and you don't. So in a situation I will be much more prepared than you will. If someone enters your house with intentions on killing you and your family I feel sorry at what the outcome might be. If someone enters my house with the same intentions I feel sorry for him.

 

All in all I feel much safer for my wellbeing owning firearms and feel I can more adequately defend myself and my family should the need arise.

 

So because I own firearms that must mean I'm going to kill people??? I have absolutely no intentions on killing anyone or committing any crimes what so ever.

 

By your knowing Martial ARts that must mean you want to beat people up. I'm sure that is the furthest from the truth. The Martial ARts and firearms are very similiar if used for the right reasons.