Firearms???

[Withers M.A.A.]

When did I ever refer to the Wild West??? Are you people "FOR REAL"

 

 

[Sin Style]

you said "But you obviously didn't study American History"

 

isn't the wild west part of american history??

 

 

[Don Gwinn]

First of all, let's define our terms. A "Gun" must be capable of FIRING, therefore an S-80 is not a "firearm."

 

Please name one of those problems you say guns have caused in America. I'm genuinely interested to hear which problems you think guns have caused and how.

 

The USA has a gun problem the way Japan had a sword problem and England has a beer bottle and forehead problem. That is, there are violent people in those nations who use those weapons to hurt and kill other people. Calling it a "gun problem" when a PERSON hurts a PERSON with a gun is foolish.

 

The SAS tends to be better at free-ranging special operations. We form similar groups, but within a few years they become highly conventional. You might look at Charlie Beckwith's book; Delta Force was his attempt to create an SAS clone in the U.S. military. It lasted as long as his command, then the next commander created what was essentially a conventional airborne unit with good shots and custom weapons.

 

Bitseach, in the U.S., the "fantasy" that trained and licensed CCW holders are good guys has been proven to be reality. They commit crimes at a rate around 1/10th as great as the average population, and even then, the vast majority of the "crimes" committed are things like carrying in a prohibited area, which most often happens by accident. I'd prefer you not generalize about me being a bad person, please.

 

I guess my question is, why do anti-gunners on this site train in martial arts? Are you not aware that your skills could be used to hurt, cripple, or even kill some poor unfortunate? How do you know that most of the "trained" martial artists out there are good people who will use their skills wisely? Wouldn't it be safer to ban the study of the martial arts so that bad people couldn't learn them?

 

 

[Withers M.A.A.]

I agree with you 100% Don Gwinn. I asked that very question and didn't get an answer. Martial Arts were originally designed to defeat others on the battle field. They evolved and became a means of self defense and self preservation. Firearms are the exact same thing but because of the medias portrayal of them the general public thinks they are evil. If these people spent just 1 hour at a gun range they would be amazed at how friendly the firearms population really is.

 

Pete

 

 

[Don Gwinn]

Well, if anyone between St. Louis and Chicago ever wants to try it out, I can be persuaded to go shooting pretty easily. Actually, just about any excuse will do.

 

I know what the answer from at least one person will be:

 

"Yes, it's true that my art has origins in combat, but I practice it in order to stay fit, have fun, and reach a higher spiritual plane."

 

Well, I've never had to use one of my guns in combat either, and the fact that some other people misuse theirs doesn't mean I don't have a right to own mine.

 

 

[Iron Arahat]

I guess my question is, why do anti-gunners on this site train in martial arts?

 

Answer: For fun health fitness and sport. Personally as well to protect the general public from criminals.

 

Are you not aware that your skills could be used to hurt, cripple, or even kill some poor unfortunate?

 

Answer: Sure, but it takes alot of training. I a more likely to kill someone if I have knife or a gun.

 

How do you know that most of the "trained" martial artists out there are good people who will use their skills wisely?

 

Answer: This can be done through controls as well, before training in Singapore the person must have a criminal record check. If they have been convicted of a violent crime, time to move to the US to train martial arts or buy a gun.

 

As I said before control make weapons less accessable, and they would still be usable for target shooting etc.. I suggest that anyone who would like to learn the dynamics of violent crime, and how situations are increased by the accessibility of things such as firearms you should read Understanding Victimology" by Ezzat Fatah from Simon Fraser University.

 

 

 

 

[Don Gwinn]

"If they have been convicted of a violent crime, time to move to the US to train martial arts or buy a gun."

 

First of all, you can't buy a gun in my part of the U.S. without what is known as a FOID or "Firearms Owner ID" card. This means you have passed a background check already. Then, to buy from a licensed dealer anywhere in the nation, everyone must undergo another check of the NICS system for any criminal or mental illness history.

 

Second of all, I'd LOVE to see the long-range plan for banning or controlling martial arts. Say I'm a violent thug. I am enjoined from studying martial arts. What will they do? How will they keep me from doing forms in my house? How will they keep me from punching a bag, or a tree for that matter? It isn't possible. How many martial arts started out completely underground?

 

Anyway, all this aside, your response means that you are, in fact, in favor of banning the study or martial arts, or you aren't? If not, please tell us what controls you would like to see that the U.S. does not already have.

 

Also, I'm still waiting for someone to cite a problem caused by guns.

 

If anyone would like to discuss this further at a site dedicated solely to firearms, feel free to visit at:

 

http://www.thefiringline.com

 

Anti-gunners are welcome; flames and trolling are very strictly forbidden, so you need not worry about it. If anyone drops in, come by the Legal and Political forum and say hi. I use the same name everywhere.

 

 

 

 

[Iron Arahat]

I guess people getting killed by a firearm isn't a problem.

 

I love how you Americans seem to think that control=banned.

 

 

[Withers M.A.A.]

Noone has ever been killed by a firearm. I've never heard of a gun getting up loading itself and shooting a person. People kill people. A firearm may be a vehicle in which some people kill others but take that away and they will just use a knife, bat, or a car. Banning guns won't decrease crime it will only increase it. More guns will hit the black market and crime will increase. It is a fact. More punishement should be in place if you commit a crime with a firearm but banning them from people is rediculous.

[Iron Arahat]

Again your mental agility amazes me Withers, I like how gun advocates throw around the word banned as an absolute. Especially in the prior post I was pointing out the fact when I say control people assumed banned, because of a jump in logic, as well as being closed minded.

 

As for the Black market thing read the previous posts again Withers, it's the Americans that fuel the Black Market. Take guns away and a person will have less lethal means to kill someone, yeah they may use a bat, but I don't think anyone will disagree that your chance of survival against a bat weilding assailant is more than a gun toting one.

 

A fist fight may end in injuries, but it takes alot more than a finger twitch to cause serious injury or death.

 

Maybe the issue is the Constitution of America not guns and people having too many "rights" in comparison to "priviledges".

 

Just a question as well is it legal in the US to have a sawed-off shotgun? If it isn't what is the rationale?

 

[ This Message was edited by: Iron Arahat on 2002-07-04 10:31 ]