Strict Dicipline in martial arts schools

[mantis.style]

Well, martial arts is not the same as self defence. Self Defence is a whole different and specialised area that might incorporate martial arts in it's teachings but it is only part of it. Martial arts is primarily about learning a fighting style, whether or not you intend to fight. Part of that learning requires you to be strong because after all, just practicing the martial art without getting yourself fit and strong at the same time isn't going to work. At the same time, if let's say we do typically 1000 warm up punches every class and your punches in drills and practices are still sloppy, what else can i do to make your punch better? It wouldn't be as if I haven't made you punch lots of times in the first place. Also take into account that class time isn't or at least shouldn't be the only time and palce where you practice form and technique. If you come into a class and still can't perform properly, you're not only wasting my time and your own, you are also wasting the time of the person who is paired with you.

For me, class has always been about teaching and practicing with partners. At home is where most of the training happens.

It isn't denying the unfit; you don't need to be fit to copy a movement. 50% of the time, correct execution is enough in a class/compliant drill. If you can't get that then that just means you haven't practiced. What am I supposed to do then? Have yo practice the movement in the class? I don't think that would serve any real purpose either. With a push up though, because it isn't practicing the technique in class, should make you think to maybe practice technique at home more. Whether or not you "get it" is down to how much practice you put into it. Yes it's true that we all potentially start with bad technique but let's be honest here, most techniques are actually simple things to perfom in isolation. Not doing it effectively in a stressed test is something different but we're just talking about form here, right?

The type of school makes a huge difference to how you teach and yes, it won't appeal to everyone. Thing is, if you are determined to train them hard, then that says something about your intentions anyway. Put it this way, I wouldn't want someone who doesn't take the time to learn and practice in my class nor would I want them on the street representing me and my school.

[DisgruntledGirl]

The type of school makes a huge difference to how you teach and yes, it won't appeal to everyone. Thing is, if you are determined to train them hard, then that says something about your intentions anyway. Put it this way, I wouldn't want someone who doesn't take the time to learn and practice in my class nor would I want them on the street representing me and my school.

In the end... we actually do agree with each other.... but still we just never will agree with each other.

I think its just the extent of how you can push different individuals is where we are just not meeting each other eye to eye. I think in the end we might even actually meet eye to eye but do not realise that we mean the exact same thing... but due to our choice of words and our actual intent behind the words vs our perceived intent... we think we dont.

Me personally? I can only do 15 straight knuckle push-ups with "good" form... 20 with "ok" form and up to 25 with bad form and just absolutely crumble after that.... I am not strong and probably will not be for a little while to come and my endurance is also pretty low (though much better than when I started).

I do practice my techniques at home, though admittedly not enough and there is sometimes only a tiny bit of improvment on my worst techniques from class to class but there are some techniques that I still do not do well at all. Just curious, how would you handle a student such as me (knowing also that I am diabetic and have some minor joint issues)?

[mantis.style]

Well, the thing is, you don't teach everyone the same thing. The best you can do is at least take them to the same level of stress/work. If you don't do that then I would be doing you a dis-service.

How would I deal with someone like you? The same as everyone else until we get to something that you really can't handle. That way, I would know what you can do, instead of worrying about you not being able to handle it. You have to remember that if you are learning from me, it will be hard anyway because at the end of the day, I want it to work for you. I want you to be able to go out and know, not assume, know that a technique is going to work.

[DisgruntledGirl]

Well, the thing is, you don't teach everyone the same thing. The best you can do is at least take them to the same level of stress/work. If you don't do that then I would be doing you a dis-service.

How would I deal with someone like you? The same as everyone else until we get to something that you really can't handle. That way, I would know what you can do, instead of worrying about you not being able to handle it. You have to remember that if you are learning from me, it will be hard anyway because at the end of the day, I want it to work for you. I want you to be able to go out and know, not assume, know that a technique is going to work.

See! I knew we meant the same thing! Seriously, we do.

And your answer is what I would expect/want, which is why I had once asked if my Sensei went "easier" on me than others. There are actually some things I "refuse" to do... but none of them are techniques and I consider myself to be able to do any technique and any strength training activity... the only things I sometimes "refuse" to do is certain stretches cus thats how I hyperextended my knee in the first place. You can give me another stretch if you like but stretches where the knees are totally unsupported I'm just timid about.

I've had people worry about me when its really not warrented for most of my life and I try to not allow it too much now. I remember one class about a month after slightly hyperextending one knee and a week or two after twisting the other one (not as bad as the first one) and we were doing kiba dachi (dunno if thats in your style) up and down the room for quite a long time trying to maintain a specified distance between someone in front of us... after a while of this my thighs ached and started to shake and litterally crumbled from beneath me and... on the floor I went... I looked over at the Sensei cus he looked as if he had a little too much concern in his eyes and I smiled and said over in his direction "Dont worry! It's not my knees... I'm just weak!" and I got up and continued on (though at a slightly more elevated stance shhhhhh) all he could do was laugh, but commended me on my effort after class

Though I cannot tell how hard your kind of "hard" actually is without actually sitting in on one of your classes... I do believe that it "might" be more than I can handle... but we will never really know that.

[ninjanurse]

It is very important to push students beyond what they think they can do so that they realize they are capable of doing things that they are convinced they can't. Students that constantly include "can't" or "won't" in their statements/conversations need to turn their "stinkin' thinkin'" around and who other than their instructor is in a better position to do that? It all comes down to trusting in your instructor and letting him/her do what you are paying them to do. Push-ups at my school are motivation to get better not punishment for poor performance.

[YoungMan]

My Instructor used to teach like that, back in the old days when he first came to America from Korea. Keep in mind, for years he had only taught black belts, plus was on Korean Army TKD Team, his University TKD Team, in addition to being to being a Korean Nat'l fighting champion. His teaching style was, to say the least, intense.

So what happened? He lost all his students except one. They simply couldn't handle that level of intensity as white belts. He had to go back and remember the way he'd been taught as a white belt in Korea and teach that way.

The key is to keep the concentration level and discipline, but teach at a level white and color belts can understand.

[bushido_man96]

Well, martial arts is not the same as self defence. Self Defence is a whole different and specialised area that might incorporate martial arts in it's teachings but it is only part of it.

Unfortunately, I think that this is all too often the case.

[gzk]

Well, funny this topic should come up, because on Monday in shootfighting I got what might be construed as push-ups as punishment for failure to execute a technique. During our warm-up, we had a couple of groups fashion a skipping rope from two belts tied together, the people at the ends of the rope turned it; the rest of us hand to come in, take four jumps, then get out. You touch the rope, you drop and do 10 pushups.

Well, I'm hopeless at skipping. Always was. I must've done about 50-60 pushups like this (in addition to the "regularly scheduled" pushups we did in the warmup, and that I did in the warmup for the BJJ class an hour before).

The thing was, this was the warmup anyway, so it wasn't quite the same as getting pushups for failing to execute a real technique. Just as important was that everybody had the right (positive) attitude about it so it didn't really feel like punishment. The instructor and I joked about it when we were getting changed after class that if we kept doing that warmup drill I wouldn't need the agility to skip rope as I'd be strong enough to deliver a one-punch knockout When we passed each other on the mat tonight he grinned and asked how my shoulders were.

I think that's the right way to dish out extra pushups.

[bushido_man96]

I think that sounds ok. You are going from doing one kind of conditioning to another, which is great, since, as you mentioned, you don't skip well. That way, you get some in. And it doesn't really sound like punishment, either, in that case.

[ninjanurse]

It works well when pushups are used as part of a warmup game. Just yesterday a student of mine remarked, "Pushups are fun this way!". Of course, never let a remark like this go unacknowledged....do more pushups!!!