Your opinion on MMA these days?

[tallgeese]

That's largly due to the fact that everyone has kind of figured out what works. Now it's about applying strategy to optimize those proven movements against a given adversary and his skill set.

Occassionally, you will see a moment of innovation or a breakthrough of movement vs. a specific fighter. It's part of the excitment. But the best "high percentage" tools have been field tested by this point and get used regularly. It's part of the movement that's slowly been establishing mma as a style all it's own.

There tends to be a cyclical tread with some skills as well. Someone uses a new or less popular tactic. Maybe it's less than "high percentage" normally, but no one uses it; hence no one trains against it. Then a few people get caught in it. Everyone starts training to defend it again and use it and as such, it peaks in popularity then starts to wane as everyone catches on. Then it goes on the backburner once again until everyone stops training to defend it regularly. Then someone will pick up on this and start the whole thing over again.

Ankle locks have kind of gone thru this cycle a few times. Good tactics to have, but sometimes less than optimal in execution. You see them come and go and it's nice when someone pulls it back out of the hat and stirs things a bit.

Mostly, secondary skills go thru this. Big ticket items, arm bars, ect. tend to have been tested and maintain a "primary skill" classification and avoid this kind of thing.

[bushido_man96]

I enjoy one great mma fight as another, I'm looking forward to UFC 100, but, after awhile, imho, all of the mma fights start blending in and looking just like the other fights, with an occasional wow-factor here and there.

Now, take away all of the rules...yahoo...now we're talking! I'm sick that way at times, heheheheheheehehee!

This is my opinion on MMA these days!

I'm not trying to pick on Bob here, but his post brings up a good point, and I'd like to expand on it a bit.

I think a lot of people get to feeling this way; all the MMA fights are the same. Well, when you get into any venue, don't they all start to "look the same?" Doesn't one Karate point fight begin to look like the other? Or TKD matches? Boxing? Muay Thai? Wrestling? Sure, every fighter has his own "style" that he brings to the table, but in the end, things begin to shake out and look very similar. So, why this beef with MMA? The others don't get by with it either, not in my book.

Edit: I just now read Alex's post. Good thoughts, too, Alex. I had not read your post prior to this. Looks like we were thinking along some of the same lines, at least.

[Patcherson]

the very old mma fights used to have high level karate and judo masters fighting in gi's (karate suits) but now all they wear is a pair of spedoes or shorts and most fights go to ground and pound it's not actually fighting its brawling

[tallgeese]

Actually, for the most part, the athletes participating now are much better athletes and fighters than we've ever seen before, particularly the early days.

They're also discovered optimal dress for the conditions of the combat. That's all. Skill is skill, regardless of how it's apporached or what is worn.

The fighters now are more diverse and have cros trained to a high degree and have multiple disciplines in most cases, those who don't are often in and out early.

Much of it might look non-technical, but there is a high degree of skill that goes into holding a good opponent in place while you strike him effectively. This is espicially true when you consider how many people have some high degree of skill on the ground these days.

It's highly skilled fighting for the most part at a higher level now than it's ever been.

[bushido_man96]

the very old mma fights used to have high level karate and judo masters fighting in gi's (karate suits) but now all they wear is a pair of spedoes or shorts and most fights go to ground and pound it's not actually fighting its brawling

Actually, fighting is brawling. They are pretty much the same thing. When it is time to come to blows, unless in competitons with rules, you don't really get to choose to "fight" or "brawl."

A fight is a fight; it may be ugly, or pretty, fast or long, solo or group. It takes many forms, depending on the circumstances.

[MMA_Jim]

the very old mma fights used to have high level karate and judo masters fighting in gi's (karate suits) but now all they wear is a pair of spedoes or shorts and most fights go to ground and pound it's not actually fighting its brawling

Such high level karate and judo masters didnt do very well considering...

Fighters nowadays wear fight trucks so as to avoid giving an opponent any type of advantage or something to grab (such as a gi). Its illegal to wear one in the US, but then again, why would you want to?

What you are watching is exactly what real fighting is. Its going to hit the ground, and the less you know about the ground the more pain you're going to be in when it does (such as those karate masters from the first UFC's)

Take the time to learn what the ground game is all about, and you'll understand just how incredibly complicated and technical it really is. Even something that looks brutish and raw such as wrestling is very beautiful and technical when you understand exactly whats going on and how moves are set up.

I'll admit, when I first watched the first UFC videos, I used to fast forward when it hit the ground because it was "boring."

[tallgeese]

And to be honest, in retrospect, some of it was.

Most practitioners didn't have a highly technical game at that time and it's really a battle of competing postures and people holding on for dear life, afraid to move or be submitted.

Of course there were exceptions, but there was plenty that was not really technical. Now, athletes have really embraced the ground game. Not to mention that with a more vast skill base on the ground that portion itself has evolved.

For instance, 15 years ago you could pull guard and look for the same one or two movements. Now, it's a really active guard game. Open guard is normal and transitions are common between postures. People who are doing well are doing more advanced stuff, that makes it more fun to watch overall, but especially in regards to the ground.

I too have to admit I did my share of fast forwarding. Learning the game changes that, but it doesn't hurt when everyone gets better and makes it more interesting.

[baronbvp]

All true, but still not always applicable to the street for those who care more about that. No one wants to get stuck on the ground with one guy for a long time in real life. MMA is great, but it's its own art and sport.

What's the next thing that will interest fans and make money? Using simulated weapons? MMA with plastic guns, going for a kill? Fighting in the dark but with NVGs on the camera? 2 v 2? Hmmm...

[tallgeese]

Still, regardless of the best laid plans, you might be there anyway. I still maintain, unless you've trained on and around the ground, most high school wrestlers can dump the average stand up guy pretty reliably.

So regardless of what is or isn't a bad idea, it might occur. Best to learn to deal with it before it happens. Comprehensive sd training these days has to encompass alot of tools and even skilled trad artists will need to cross train outside the traditional mold if they want to really explore all of what that entails. MMA just happens to provide a good, solid, practical unarmed skill base from which to build from.

No, MMA isn't the be all and end all of sd skills. But too many trad ma-ist dismiss it because of the sport aspect. The ignore the fact that athletes training in mma are working against live resistance much more often than many karate schools for instance.

It's the training modalities that they use that make it very effective in many instances.

[MMA_Jim]

All true, but still not always applicable to the street for those who care more about that. No one wants to get stuck on the ground with one guy for a long time in real life. MMA is great, but it's its own art and sport.

What's the next thing that will interest fans and make money? Using simulated weapons? MMA with plastic guns, going for a kill? Fighting in the dark but with NVGs on the camera? 2 v 2? Hmmm...

No one wants to get stuck on the ground in MMA either- figure that when a fight hits the ground, at least one of the fighters isnt too pleased to be there (usually the one on the bottom). If he isnt exceptionally trained in the ground game, hes going to be in for a painfull night. During a street/self defense scenario, it could be fatal.

MMA fighters are no longer one dimensional- they train all aspects. After training against other professionals on a daily basis, a self defense situation against a bunch of untrained people is actually a fun and entertaining event.