Your opinion on MMA these days?

[username8517]

And it just proves my point. Sport TKD fighters always bow to each other before a match, as do, I'm assuming, sport karate fighters. They are not engaging in traditional martial arts, yet retain the traditional Oriental act of bowing to the opponent as a sign of respect. Americans somehow find this distasteful, yet trash talking is okay.

The fact that MMA fighter train techniques borrowed from Oriental fighting arts but don't practice the act of bowing as a physical sign of respect is one more way we have Americanized Asian fighting styles by removing the philosophical underpinnings that support them. The fact that they are sports is irrelevant. Judo is largely a sport, yet judoka still bow to each other.

I'm failing to see how a point--at all.

First, people were training in fighting techniques to cover hand to hand and grappling situations long before European civilization (which is where the majority of Americans ultimately hail from) even discovered the Orient. So to simply say that MMA only includes fighting styles derived from the Asian styles would be like saying that racing cars never occured before NASCAR. There are many MMA fighters who trainin boxing and wrestling, both of which are not your typical Asian fighting styles. Are they still expected to bow prior to starting a fight?

Second, as you concede, UFC is a sport. And here in America there is trash-talking in every major sport shown on tv--football, basketball, boxing, MMA--the list goes on. Why do you expect MMA to be any different? On top of that, there are many guys (I've even wager the majority) in the MMA world who don't trash talk--Jeremy Horn, for example, has been called one of the nicest guys inside and out of the ring by many of his UFC opponents and training partners.

Finally (technically I could go on, but I'll leave it here), why is bowing the only sign of respect MMA fighters can show? As previously mentioned by multiple people, there are various ways that MMA fighters already show their respect towards each other (touching gloves, hugging, etc.) Even after Jens Pulver got destroyed by BJ Penn at the finale of The Ultimate Fighter 5, he said he was going to train directly with BJ to increase his grappling game--granted it's not bowing, but it sounds to me like Pulver has a great deal of respect for BJ to learn directly from the person that beat him.

In the end, philiosphy and fighting are two totally different aspects of human nature. Just because some choose to blend them together doesn't mean that everyone else has to follow the same ideals (or even agree with it).

[DokterVet]

Voluntarily shaking hands, touching gloves and hugging after a fight is a much more genuine show of respect than being forced to bow when the head referee yells at you to bow.

[ps1]

Young Man,

You still didn't answer my question. If MMA events suddenly began wit a bow, would you suddenly begin to like them?

Also, how do you explain all of the MMA events that go on in "Asian" countries that star Asian martial artists who also do not bow? I think this proves it has nothing to do with "Asian" and everything to do with what the accepted ettiquite for a particular sport is. Trash talk happens before these events also. I'm only pointing this out because you seem to blame America for the "lack of respect."

[TheArtofDave]

In regards to the OP, (Young Man) I think his name was. I'll get straight to the point now.

IFL, Elite XC (before it folded), and even (WEC), Cage Rage, whatever. UFC is determined to be the pros. Anything outside of it is considered to be the amateurs. Not to say that some great matches don't happen, but that's the general mentality.

There's blood in boxing. Mickey Ward, and Arturo Gatti, fought 12 rounds a few years ago. From the time the bell opened to the time it stopped the punched each other until I thought both of them could no longer stand. At the end of the fight they were talking about doing it again. They did, but it never touched the first fight. Blood is in a lot of sports. Boxing for one. Boxing is a scientific sport for the most part, but its not any worse than MMA.

You have to give fighters some lee way when they are learning. IFL has use of camps. So its the camps winning points, and not the fighters. Each fighter is just a representative of that camp. So its more like a team effort than an individual. WEC is more like you'd expect for MMA fights. UFC is determined to be the best.

Look into women's MMA. That's definitely something that will grow especially with all its untapped potential.

[The BB of C]

That's true. I firmly believe that the majority of mixed martial artists lack speed, precision and power.

Below is a link that someone on this forum posted a couple of days ago. I believe that if these fighters were to enter the octagon, they would dominate.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gkGP0AM14F0

I still have trouble seeing some of those techniques when they are executed.

[tallgeese]

I respectfully disagree.

MMAers, especially those of high quality, defiantly demonstrate speed, power and accuracy. You can easily see it in any match that you care to watch that has professionally trained and dedicated fighters competing.

As for the linked guys dominating, I don't see it without major modification. The stances are too wide and immobile for defeating the takedown, the hands are often too low to effectively protect the head and mindset counterproductive to success in MMA. Additionally, you'd have to see what ground and wrestling skills they possess. If the answer is none then you've got at least a year of hard work there to get them ready.

Not to say they couldn't compete. But to succeed at any level they'd need work and modification.

[baronbvp]

Well put, tallgeese.

[The BB of C]

I respectfully disagree.

MMAers, especially those of high quality, defiantly demonstrate speed, power and accuracy. You can easily see it in any match that you care to watch that has professionally trained and dedicated fighters competing.

As for the linked guys dominating, I don't see it without major modification. The stances are too wide and immobile for defeating the takedown, the hands are often too low to effectively protect the head and mindset counterproductive to success in MMA. Additionally, you'd have to see what ground and wrestling skills they possess. If the answer is none then you've got at least a year of hard work there to get them ready.

Not to say they couldn't compete. But to succeed at any level they'd need work and modification.

Maybe we simply have different opinions or maybe we've seen different fights. But I have seen maybe two MMAists that can strike or block as fast as the Shotokai in that video. I have an extremely hard time hitting my Isshin-ryu teachers who hardly ever have their hands up at all. I do agree with the ground combat stuff.

[tallgeese]

The thing about blocking and covering can probably best discussed in context of the contact and protective gear level. Everything looks sharper in a semi contact setting, or at least cleaner.

But there is a world of difference in surviving between the two. That's where the mindset become so important, and behind that the training methods used to prep the two sets of fighters. An attacker, committed 100% to hurting you is much more difficult to cover from than one constrained by contact limits. Fast blocks become less effective if they fail to stop incoming power. That's why you see MMAers using a zoned defense pattern more often than not. It's usually more absorptive of power and there is less movement involved with placing limbs in place to take punishment.

Speed is great, but speed with intent and power behind it is another monster altogether.

[The BB of C]

I don't think it meerley looks cleaner. Some of those guys were knocked out through an inch of padded glove. That's all the protective gear they were wearing (if any - there are a couple people in the videos who aren't even wearing gloves). Unless the uniform counts as protective. If that isn't speed with intent for power behind it, than I don't know what is besides a well-timed haymaker. Just look at the last knockout in the video. The guy that delivered the final punch KO'ed someone who looked to be twice his weight and had at least five inches on him. As for blocking power, that's just a matter of redirecting the force with the block. Most traditional style blocking I've come across (in karate, throwing arts, Korean arts and Chinese) is designed to strike the forearm as it's coming in which will disrupt the flow of kinetic energy and redirect the strike entirely. It has to be done correctly of course.