Your opinion on MMA these days?

[Kante]

Most MMA guys are not so worried about what style they do or how many arts they know, and they certainly arnt attached to any specific way of beating the opponent.

I agree. It is kind of like the "liberation" that Bruce Lee talked about.

Of course, but to be liberated from something you need to have something to be liberated from in the first place. And that something is a martial arts background. I mean you HAVE to have an actual fighting experience and that is martial arts.

But being a wrestler all your life and then joining an MMA school does not really make you that liberated fighter because an actual martial arts past of hardcore training is essential.

Keep in my that wrestling is just an example.

[cross]

martial arts background. I mean you HAVE to have an actual fighting experience and that is martial arts.

But being a wrestler all your life and then joining an MMA school does not really make you that liberated fighter because an actual martial arts past of hardcore training is essential.

Im not sure i see your point. A wrestlers background is wrestling. How does that make them any better or worse than someone who has a background in something else?

[ps1]

Here is one important point to understand: A FIGHTING STYLE DOESN'T HAVE TO BE "TRADITIONAL" TO BE CONSIDERED A FIGHTING STYLE.

100% true.

In fact, many MMA guys I've spoken with study in MMA only gyms because they don't want the philosophy and "extra techniques" taught in traditional schools. Sometimes I really wonder why everyone is so down on MMA but years have gone by and nothing negative was said about boxing. They teach the same way (boxing and MMA schools).

Personally, I think it's because MMA actually has the words "martial arts" in it. Many "traditionalists" feel it should be taken out. Maybe just call it "mixed fighting" or something. However, I could make the same argument for any system that no longer teaches all martial elements (which is virtually all of them).

I think it's ugly fighting by people who take the techniques of different styles but neglect the art and philosophy.

I agree, that they do neglect the art in so much that they do not train all aspects relating to their art being martial. That's what the word "art" actually refers to. But when's the last time you went outside in rank and file and practiced your flanking maneuvers, or archery, or any of the other things that relate to war. Most of us actually study "martial ways" or "martial paths." As I mentioned above, they don't want the philosophy, boxing hadn't used it for years and no one ever expected them to do so. Why do we expect that to change all of the sudden?

Now I'm not exceptionally old (28years), but in my life time, which includes 8 years in the service and 15 months in Iraq, I've never seen a fight of any kind that is not ugly.

If by "ugly" you mean unskilled, you have never been in the ring with one of those fighters. Their timing, movements, and distancing are very precise.

I also have a question about whether or whether not there are schools that actually teach a fighting system called "MMA"? Because that just doesn't make any sense.

Yes, there are. They seem to be poping up like crazy, especially as MMA competitions become more prevalent (Most states have lifted the bans on them as they realize they can make money on them through regulations). I visit them when I can. Many, sadly, remind me of McDojos though. That is, the instructor may only really know one martial art/fighting system and makes the rest up (I think that's where some of the crappy competitors come in). Others are actually good with good instructors. I think the term MMA is used most often because it's recognized by the public.

[bushido_man96]

martial arts background. I mean you HAVE to have an actual fighting experience and that is martial arts.

But being a wrestler all your life and then joining an MMA school does not really make you that liberated fighter because an actual martial arts past of hardcore training is essential.

Im not sure i see your point. A wrestlers background is wrestling. How does that make them any better or worse than someone who has a background in something else?

A martial arts background is not required to take up boxing. The same can be said for taking up MMA. This is the way it is going to go on from now on. Many stylists will claim that "rank means nothing" and that "belts are only for holding you pants up." But now that MMA gyms have come along, and will train people to fight, and fight well, minus all of the rank systems, philosophies, cultural tie-ins, etc, practitioners who have spent decades in traditional styles feel that they have been cheapened, or feel threatened. However, the trend is not going to change, so we should all learn what we can from it.

By the way, ps1, you had an excellent post!

[bushido_man96]

To use a baseball analogy, the IFL is a AAA-standard competition at best. The majors are the UFC and PRIDE, with the occasional match in K-1's MMA events being of similar standards. There are plenty of mostly-standup fights in the UFC these days and PRIDE as well, though I mostly watch UFC.

This is a good analogy. It is the same one I was thinking of earlier, and you beat me to it.

[ps1]

Thanks Bushido!

[bushido_man96]

After thinking on this, I have come to a realization, albeit my own, so let me know if you think I am close or not.

With the way that the UFC began, as a "style vs. style" format, it was exactly that. Then, it began to evolve into what it is with the observed success of ground fighting. Now, being where MMA is, and seeing where it came from, many stylists feel that the fighters have to come from some style or another.

Think about Pankration. When it was an ancient Olympic game, it was taken for what it was. Why can't we just look at MMA like this? It is its own animal, whether we want it to be or not. It is, in a sense, modern day Pankration. However, since the Eastern styles have evolved into the budo that they have become, everyone that practices an Eastern Martial style has the misconception that every fighting style that ever did exist should have came from the same kind of roots. I just don't think this should be the case.

MMA fighters are MMA fighters. Sure, some of them may also be Karateka, Judoka, TKDers, and BJJers. However, they are all MMA fighters as well. As I mentioned previously, I think as the years go by you will see less and less of the fighters' styles listed in the "Tale of the Tape," and will instead see the fighters' gym name listed.

I hope this isn't just recycled, and I hope it isn't too confusing.

[DokterVet]

It is entirely possible that kante saw a match between two guys with limited striking ability.

If you want to see some high level striking in MMA, check out fights by Mirko "Cro-Cop" Filipovic, Duane Ludwig, Anderson Silva, and Wanderlei Silva.

If you want to see a good example of a fight showcasing all of the aspects of MMA, I recommend the recent fight between Tyson Griffin and Clay Guida.

[dreambig73]

There are only a couple schools here in my area that teach MMA, but they generally teach some form of karate and you can only get into the MMA after you have earned your black belt. That being said, my opinions are kind of mixed (no pun). While I do enjoy watching MMA matches as well as kick boxing, karate, etc., I just find it funny when someone talks about MMA like it is it's own discipline. While it is being taught as a stand-alone fighting style, one cannot forget what it really is: a combination of several disciplines (hence the name). The reality is that a good striker can beat a good wrestler if he can keep on his feet, just as a good wrestler can beat a good striker on the ground. I do agree with some who think that people are more interested in the fighting than the discipline and tradition behind the martial arts that make up MMA.

[bushido_man96]

I think from its inception, fighting itself was all-inclusive. Many of the styles that we observe today have become what they are after their use in warfare began to decrease. As, for lack of better western terms, the "bujutsu" began to be replaced by the "budo," styles individualized and picked certain things to maintain and pass down. Before this, a warrior wasn't told, "don't do that; it isn't in our style." Fighting was all-inclusive, and now, with MMA coming around, it is beginning to get back to that.

Yes, I know that MMA has a rule-set, and therefore can never completely emulate a street encounter. However, not many styles in practice today can. You either add rules, and up the contact level, or you take away the rules, and decrease the contact levels. Finding a happy medium is difficult, and no one will ever decide on one.

As far as the street fighters go...well, they do fight, like Martial artists do fight. When it comes down to it, on the street, whether you get beat by a street fighter or a Martial Artist, you still get beat. It doesn't really matter how you classify them or yourself.