Parkour and Selfdefense

[The BB of C]

What are your thoughts on having Parkour and acrobatics in the training in a school that emphasis realistic selfdefense?

Martial artists are often saying that it's best to run away. So why is almost no school helping students learn Parkour which is basically the art of fleeing.

I don't know. But that's a very good idea.

[Montana]

It looks nice, but I don't think it is realistic. It would be the equivalent of training XMA for self-defense purposes.

Agreed. It's something that would be an option to only a very small percentage of the population. Old farts like me with bad backs, bad knees and just plain old, wouldn't be able to do anything close to that.

My outlook on the arts is that it should be something that can be learned by the vast majority of the people, not just those that are prime physical specimens.

As for running from a fight...we do train in hit and run techniques often, along with stand and fight. I teach my people that if you put a guy down soundly, where he's not going to get up for a minute (knock the wind out of him for example), don't stand around and wait for him to get up. Get out of there to safety!

[bushido_man96]

Well, I still think it looks nice, but is just not as applicable as many might think that it would be. Even at the basic level, you are looking at a lot of very complex motor movements, which, when the adrenaline dumps, goes out the door very quickly. Miss one of those precision jumps across two buildings, and then that's it. You are done.

[Kajukenbopr]

well, if people have the time to train for parkour, they should go ahead and practice because not only would it help with the getting away part, but also works in developing flexibility, agility and endurance.

however, i dont think most people have the time or the energy to take a good self defense class and then the parkour. it would mean long LONG hours of practise and training.

--not that it can't be done,however--

[dippedappe]

Well, I still think it looks nice, but is just not as applicable as many might think that it would be. Even at the basic level, you are looking at a lot of very complex motor movements, which, when the adrenaline dumps, goes out the door very quickly. Miss one of those precision jumps across two buildings, and then that's it. You are done.

Well no one said that if you are on the run from some thugs and you've been training Parkour, you would automatically have to get up on top of that large building and jump off it. And if you actually were surrounded on top of a building, would you then rather be off not having practiced Parkour?

If you look at the clips linked here and other clips on Parkour you would see that it's not only jumping from building to building and make fancy flips off something. Theres plenty of useful maneuvers being shown. Such as running on walls. Getting over really high walls quickly etc. Many of the maneuvers I've seen in Parkour clips are some I can definitely see being put to good use where I live if I had to run. It doesn't have to be dangerous like jumping off a building or fancy like doing flips and such.

And about the adrenaline. You know that in a fight, you might avoid that dagger coming towards you and you might not. Adrenaline can be a problem, but you will still be better off than someone who have not studied Martial Arts. Same with Parkour and escaping. Anyway. Adrenaline can work both ways. It can just as well be helpful to you.

[bushido_man96]

Well, I still think it looks nice, but is just not as applicable as many might think that it would be. Even at the basic level, you are looking at a lot of very complex motor movements, which, when the adrenaline dumps, goes out the door very quickly. Miss one of those precision jumps across two buildings, and then that's it. You are done.

Well no one said that if you are on the run from some thugs and you've been training Parkour, you would automatically have to get up on top of that large building and jump off it. And if you actually were surrounded on top of a building, would you then rather be off not having practiced Parkour?

If you look at the clips linked here and other clips on Parkour you would see that it's not only jumping from building to building and make fancy flips off something. Theres plenty of useful maneuvers being shown. Such as running on walls. Getting over really high walls quickly etc. Many of the maneuvers I've seen in Parkour clips are some I can definitely see being put to good use where I live if I had to run. It doesn't have to be dangerous like jumping off a building or fancy like doing flips and such.

And about the adrenaline. You know that in a fight, you might avoid that dagger coming towards you and you might not. Adrenaline can be a problem, but you will still be better off than someone who have not studied Martial Arts. Same with Parkour and escaping. Anyway. Adrenaline can work both ways. It can just as well be helpful to you.

You make a lot of points here. However, as far as "wouldn't you rather know how, then not" arguement, you can say that about many things. We should all wear ballistics vests, if that is the case, because the firearm is a very real threat in society. However, it isn't going to happen. I know that I picked out a very extreme case of the scenario (building jumping), but even running up walls, etc., can result in injuries as well, as can many different endeavors. What it boils down to is the practicality of being able to use it, and its applications.

As far as adrenaline goes, you are right, it can help you. However, its effects on people are pretty universal.

[TheRenegade]

I don't really know what Parkour is, but from the descriptions, it sounds like the acrobatic stuff that Jackie Chan does in his movies to get away from people. In my opinion, if you try to do stuff like that, you are going to be in a world of hurt if you mess it up. If you want to run, then run. I know that schools should teach every aspect of self-defense, but let's not over-complicate this. Running is running. The way you get faster is to do sprint training. The way to gain endurance is to run distance. Now, if you want to try to swing from escape ladders, try to climb a wall, etc., then best of luck to you. That is going to take quite some time to become good at, and most schools aren't equipped with the "environment" to train you how to do something like that.

And if I am mistaken as to what you are talking about, then disregard the above statement.

Yea, what he said. Keep in mind parkour guys do more than one take, and scope out the places they do their crazy stuff. The videos are cut to make it look like they're little spidermans running around doing what they do, but there's a lot of behind the scenes stuff you don't see. Running away is often an option, but "self defense" sometimes means destroying an opponent's ability to hurt you with violence.

[DWx]

I don't really know what Parkour is, but from the descriptions, it sounds like the acrobatic stuff that Jackie Chan does in his movies to get away from people. In my opinion, if you try to do stuff like that, you are going to be in a world of hurt if you mess it up. If you want to run, then run. I know that schools should teach every aspect of self-defense, but let's not over-complicate this. Running is running. The way you get faster is to do sprint training. The way to gain endurance is to run distance. Now, if you want to try to swing from escape ladders, try to climb a wall, etc., then best of luck to you. That is going to take quite some time to become good at, and most schools aren't equipped with the "environment" to train you how to do something like that.

And if I am mistaken as to what you are talking about, then disregard the above statement.

Yea, what he said. Keep in mind parkour guys do more than one take, and scope out the places they do their crazy stuff. The videos are cut to make it look like they're little spidermans running around doing what they do, but there's a lot of behind the scenes stuff you don't see. Running away is often an option, but "self defense" sometimes means destroying an opponent's ability to hurt you with violence.

Sure they cut their videos but don't a lot of MA demo and sampler videos do that too? They put those videos on the net to show off the best of what they can do so they wouldn't be showing you the times when they couldn't perform a move, similarly a MA video won't show you the times when someone couldn't break or couldn't jump or couldn't execute a technique.

Running away is often an option, but "self defense" sometimes means destroying an opponent's ability to hurt you with violence.

If running away is an option then run. Don't give your opponent the chance to use his ability to hurt you. It's less messy than dealing with a post-fight senario.

As for how practical parkour is, there is a group of tracuers that I go to college with. They got in trouble once for training on the local uni campus and had to actually use their skills to run away. Very funny at the time because the security guards couldn't catch them.

[WudangDragon]

I just stumbled across this article and it piqued my intrest, as I have been a dedicated traceur for around 5 years now.

I feel there are some points that I should make before offering my own two cents on this topic.

Le Parkour, or the Art of Movement (L'art du deplacement) is a French discipline, the objectives of which are escape and reach. To this end, Le Parkour is simply the art of purely efficient movement through one's environment.

Le Parkour has nothing to do with flair or aesthetic movements - flips and spins etc. as these are detrimental to uninterupted forwards movement, negatively affecting the efficiency of the practitioner's motions. Le parkour mixed with flips and spins etc. is called Freerunning, or Le Yamakasi in France.

Freerunning is what is generally seen being practiced upon rooftops; most traceurs never step foot on a rooftop as the odds of escape from such a plateau are very slim. Training on rooftops is also very dangerous and is actively discouraged within the parkour community.

Anyone can train in Le Parkour, the same as in the MA's - you start slowly and small, gradually building your way up as your health, fitness, proprioception, kinesthesia and proficiency in the discipline increase.

For those who say le parkour might not be efficient as a means of escape from a confrontation, I offer the fact that le parkour was born on military obstacle courses (cours de combatant; A.K.A. Parcours) and developed by the French soldiers during the Vietnam War, to escape from opposition guerrilla units and under pressure of fire. (Raymond Belle was one of these soldiers, he taught what he had used in Vietnam to his son, David who further developed the art (such as adapting techniques for more urban landscapes) on French streets with his friends and is accepted as the father of Le Parkour as it is known today.)

When one cannot fight, or is in need of escape for any other reason, le parkour is perfect for this end.

Another application related to martial arts/self defense of le parkour could be tactical retreat. The Japanese Shinsengumi, when outnumbered, used to turn tail and run in the days of the Bakumatsu. Naturally, the fastest of their opponents would catch up first. At this point the Shinsengumi fighted would abruptly stop and turn, slash down his opponent, and continue running until the next attacker caught up. This would be repeated until the Shinsengumi fighter emerged victorious.

This tactic is easily adapted using parkour and martial arts.

I beleive those trained in combat should be prepared for those times where combat is not an option and retreat is required, and vice versa.

After all, there is always a better fighter. However, should you meet this better fighter in combat, the odds of his being more proficient at parkour (eg. being able to catch you even though you are trained in escape) as well as a better fighter are very slim.

I think the best way to be safe on the street is to be well versed in both combat and combat evasion (confrontation de-escalation, escape etc.).

Thats my two cents anyways

[bushido_man96]

WudangDragon, your description of Le Parkour as opposed to the pereception of free running helps to clarify things a lot. I can understand how it can be very useful.