Parkour and Selfdefense

[dippedappe]

What are your thoughts on having Parkour and acrobatics in the training in a school that emphasis realistic selfdefense?

Martial artists are often saying that it's best to run away. So why is almost no school helping students learn Parkour which is basically the art of fleeing.

[BlahuKahuna]

You make a compelling point. But I think that a martial arts school should focus on the hand to hand components of a fight, and leave the other aspects (parkour, firearms) to other places to learn.Not that parkour wouldn't be great to learn on the side , I just think that martial arts schools maybe aren't the best place to learn parkour.

[Dazed and Confused]

Isn't teaching parkour basically teaching gymnastics and acrobatics? Dominic Lacasse provides training routines that he says can be used to develop parkour skills, and they are essentially gymnastics based (and excellent, i should add!). I've never seen anywhere that teaches parkour as a discpline in its own right.

Its an interesting point though dippedappe, I believe schools that teach "self defence" as a discipline should include things like conflict management and maybe the art of fleeing should be a part of that? If anyone has seen any of the Tony Jaa film Ong Bak, Jaa certainly seems to have combined MA with parkour, and uses the art of fleeing to great effect a number of times!

[Montana]

Martial artists are often saying that it's best to run away.

Not in my dojo we don't. Yes, sometimes running is your best option, but usually after you've disabled or stunned your opponent so they can't run after you.

So why is almost no school helping students learn Parkour which is basically the art of fleeing.

I'll have to do some research on this one. I've never heard of the art of running away. Dare I take a guess as to what country this originates from? No...better not.

[dippedappe]

If anyone has seen any of the Tony Jaa film Ong Bak, Jaa certainly seems to have combined MA with parkour, and uses the art of fleeing to great effect a number of times!

Jackie Chan also comes to mind

Not in my dojo we don't. Yes, sometimes running is your best option, but usually after you've disabled or stunned your opponent so they can't run after you..

If you study Martial Arts, it's most likely because you want to become a Survivor. If you favor realistic self defense, you should strive to be ready for any situation that might occur. If you are only training to become better at hand-to-hand combat etc, then you may end up in a situation that you are not prepared for. You might end up in a situation where you cannot simply disable your opponents and will have to run instead. But then the opponents might be able to run faster than you.

In my opinion, a MA school that is into realistic self defense should train everything that the students may experience, such as defense against someone who wields a gun or knife, mentality, learn awareness and how to act tough to avoid the conflict in the first place, how to be better escape your opponents and so on.

Most MA schools I know of are satisfied with just learning how to punch, kick or grab your opponent and then perhaps do a little 5 minutes defense against knife training once every half year.

I'm not saying that you need to learn how to do a fancy Butterfly Twist or anything like that, but to learn how to use your environment better can help you greatly both in a fight and when escaping a fight.

[Montana]

But then the opponents might be able to run faster than you.

Either that, or there are more than one of them and they will run you to the ground like a pack of wild dogs. Unless you're an Olympic class sprinter or a marathon runner, you stand a better chance of learning how to deal with multipe opponents and standing your ground and fighting.

In my opinion, a MA school that is into realistic self defense should train everything that the students may experience, such as defense against someone who wields a gun or knife, mentality, learn awareness and how to act tough to avoid the conflict in the first place, how to be better escape your opponents and so on.

Agreed. Running is a last ditch effort IMO. Walking away is OK if it's a posability, but not running. People are like animals...run and it sparks an instinct to pursue.

Most MA schools I know of are satisfied with just learning how to punch, kick or grab your opponent and then perhaps do a little 5 minutes defense against knife training once every half year.

I'm not "most" MA schools. Knife defenses are worked on often, as are baseball bats, guns, chairs, etc.

I'm not saying that you need to learn how to do a fancy Butterfly Twist or anything like that, but to learn how to use your environment better can help you greatly both in a fight and when escaping a fight.

Yes, learning to use your environment and what's at hand is very important. We do this often.

[bushido_man96]

I don't really know what Parkour is, but from the descriptions, it sounds like the acrobatic stuff that Jackie Chan does in his movies to get away from people. In my opinion, if you try to do stuff like that, you are going to be in a world of hurt if you mess it up. If you want to run, then run. I know that schools should teach every aspect of self-defense, but let's not over-complicate this. Running is running. The way you get faster is to do sprint training. The way to gain endurance is to run distance. Now, if you want to try to swing from escape ladders, try to climb a wall, etc., then best of luck to you. That is going to take quite some time to become good at, and most schools aren't equipped with the "environment" to train you how to do something like that.

And if I am mistaken as to what you are talking about, then disregard the above statement.

[DWx]

Parkour is all about overcoming your environment and training one of nature's natural instincts, to flee.

When an animal is faced with an opponent they wil do one of several things:

* fight

* flock (to where other people are)

* freeze

* or flee

As MAists we train the first one but parkour tries to develop the fleeing instinct. I think maybe in a self defense situation it would be useful to have a basic grounding in both. No-one's unbeatable and in some situations fleeing is going to be the best option. Say for example you were attacked by a gang of 6, 7 or 8 teenagers who were all fit, healthy and half decent fighters. I wouldn't want to try to fight them and if I couldn't avoid a conflict I would run. Being able to use my environment to my advantage would help me to escape.

David Belle, founder of Parkour:

[ps1]

If you happen to be skilled at Parkour, it's a nice thing to offer. However, it's clearly not something that everyone can do. Many martial arts schools offer hand to hand that can be learned by virtually every member of the population. Parkour and acrobatics are so dynamic and physically demanding that not everyone has the capability to learn them. But, if you have some students who are atheletic enough to do it, I certainly wouldn't discourage them from learning it.

P.S. If you haven't seen it, just watch the opening few minutes of the newest James Bond movie.

[bushido_man96]

It looks nice, but I don't think it is realistic. It would be the equivalent of training XMA for self-defense purposes.