Concerns about my School

[Dazed and Confused]

I'm not sure whether I should post this here or in the Karate thread, but I have some concerns about the school at which I have started training. I tried a lot of different clubs/dojos/gyms, some of which I documented on here, and started to train at this one because I really like the teacher, and it fulfilled most of my criteria. I was very keen to find a club that had a good combination of tradition and competition, preferably with an element of self defence. This proved really quite difficult and the club I have chosen focusses mainly on the sporting side. Indeed the club in fact refers to itself as a "Sports Karate Academy".

I have two main concerns. Firstly there are very few adults that train with this teacher, and classes are mixed with children. Initially this was a bonus as I got a lot of extra attention from the teacher, but recently the higher ranking children have begun showing new kata to the adults. Am I wrong in thinking that this is not a good approach? It obviously feels a bit embarrasing being taught by a child (I'm talking about 12 year olds!) but this isn't the point, I just doubt its effectiveness. Am I training at a children's club that has tacked a few adults on?

Secondly I'm concerned that I may be losing something in the traditional side of things. I was keen to compete and also maintain the traditional "art" side of MA, but I'm no longer this is possible. In terms of kata and techniques the club claims to combine many styles including Wado Ryu, Shotokan Ryu, Shito Ryu, Goju Ryu and Kyukoshinkai. Does this sound credible?

I was wondering if maybe the answer might be to continue training here to fulfill my desire to compete, and maybe look at cross training at a more traditional school to complement it?

All opinions welcome!

[BlahuKahuna]

I say it depends on the skill/maturity of the kids. For example, all of the higher ranking kids at my school somehow manage to be mature, skilled teachers for an hour and a half. But I have seen schools with hyper little rascals darting about, and I have my doubts about being taught by them. If the kids can teach as well as an adult, (somewhat rare, but I've seen it happen) I have no qualms about being taught by them. I guess same goes for your club.

[lordtariel]

I would talk to your sensei about your doubts.(Politely of course) Tell him you're uncomfortable with learning from a 12 year old. Personally, if they know what they're doing, it's not a big deal for me.

In regards to your other concern, there's nothing inherently wrong in mixing styles as long as your instructor understands the differences. The old masters traveled all over the place training with other people. They incorporated what worked and discarded what didn't.

[Dazed and Confused]

I confess to being a little confused over this issue of different karate styles. For example, I am moving away for a year in July, and hope to continue my training elsewhere before coming back to my school (if all goes well!), but all different karate schools seem to take such vastly different approaches. Yet despite this many seem united under the World Karate Federation (the recent gradings undertaken by my school were assessed by an 8th dan grade in "karate", no mention of any style). This apparent interchangeable nature of the styles confuses me greatly when the schools all seem to use different kata, belt structures etc!

Eventually, way down the line (I'm 22 at the moment) I would love to get involved in teaching martial arts, but I struggle to see how I can gain a sufficient level of skill without focussing on one particular karate style. Have I got this wrong?

[RealWingChunKuen]

Eventually, way down the line (I'm 22 at the moment) I would love to get involved in teaching martial arts, but I struggle to see how I can gain a sufficient level of skill without focussing on one particular karate style. Have I got this wrong?

You have got it perfectly right. You have a bad feeling about your school's approach to karate. When I read your initial post I also began to get a bad "feel" about your school. You can mix adult and children classes up to a reasonable level, beyond which the standard will fall.

Secondly, to really understand any particular style of karate (and indeed, kung fu) will take most people decades. Only then one should even contemplate mixing various other styles to a core art. However, you will find that once a particular style of karate is well understood by a practitioner, it is unlikely that he or she will just mix it with another martial art.

This is because most tradtional styles of karate (and kung fu) will give you an all round arsenal to defend yourself. Once one understands this then it is less likely that one will try to "improve" upon it by mixing it with other styles or MA. Of course, this is not to say that one cannot study other styles separately once a person gains expert , or at least a good workable, knowledge of ones core art.

All karate is not the same. A Shotokan punch is different from a Goju Ryu punch. There are also differences in the way katas are performed and even their applications. It is better to practise one style of karate and understand it, then study a jumbled up mixture of karate styles mixed by god knows who.

I know that in the UK you can find very good Shotokan, Kyokushinkai and Goju Ryu schools as well as probably other schools representing other styles. I am not sure of what is available in your part of the UK, but it is well worth your while to look for a school that will teach a particular and valid style of karate, with techniques, theories and concepts that are part and parcel of that particular system.

Good Luck.

[Montana]

Just a quick little story here which shoudl make my view point clear. Maybe 15 years ago I attended a seminar the night before a tournamentthat was hosted by a 10 year old, 3rd Dan black belt. He was supposedly a National Champion of some sort.

During a break in this seminar, which consisted of this 10 year old showing off his high kicks and general "flash-crap" (as I like to call it) I was talking to other sensei in attendance when this kid comes up and just starts taking over the conversation. I don't know what made me do it...just an impulse I guess (I get those sometimes)..but I grabbed the kid by his lapels, picked him up and put his back against the wall so that his head was level with mine (I'm 6'6" tall), and our noses were maybe 6 inches apart. I said to him..."Now what are you going to do?"

Well, let's just say that I was worried he was going to pee his pants, so I put him down. I know this sounds mean, but you'd have had to been at this seminar to see this pompous little ...uhhhh...turd... strutting around like God Himself to understand what made me do what I did. His parents cater to his every whim, he has students that kiss his ....cheeks, and he just thinks he's top of the heap. AT 10!!!

I guess what I'm trying to say here is that I don't want to take classes from a young kid. 15/16+ is OK, but any younger and I won't do it. Not a whole class. Sure, help with something like a basic or a kata perhaps, but not a whole class.

[cross]

I was very keen to find a club that had a good combination of tradition and competition, preferably with an element of self defence.

Has you stated, this could be extremely difficult. You may get lucky, but keep in mind that whilst there are similarities in each of those areas you mention, for the most part they are worlds apart.

I was wondering if maybe the answer might be to continue training here to fulfill my desire to compete, and maybe look at cross training at a more traditional school to complement it?

Thats certainly an option, if competition is important to you, and this school teaches the kind of competition fighting you enjoy, then stick with it. If not, find somewhere else.

Eventually, way down the line (I'm 22 at the moment) I would love to get involved in teaching martial arts, but I struggle to see how I can gain a sufficient level of skill without focussing on one particular karate style. Have I got this wrong?

It depends on what you want to teach. If you want to teach a specific style then perhaps you wont have the depth of knowledge to do that with your current "mix and match" training. But who says you have to teach just one style?

[Dazed and Confused]

I am going to this club next week. Allows me a day each week to keep up with my sports karate. The main appeal was that it has a branch in the place I'm moving to in a couple of months. I'm a little suspicious of clubs that name drop Bruce Lee, does this sound OK? Maybe I should post about this in the Combative Arts thread?

[ps1]

It seems like a pretty reputable school (based on the website). As a Jun Fan Jeet Kun Do school, you'll hear Bruce Lee's name alot. But it's expected in that environment. He's the founder of the system.

[Kante]

Am I training at a children's club that has tacked a few adults on?

You must have the ability to accept and absorb knowledge by all means and ways, don't feel embarrassed of being given advice to by young kids at times.

It is in fact ignorant to feel superior over someone for the mere fact that you're older than him/her and it most certainly contradicts with developing your fighting skills and will only stand in your way towards becoming a better fighter/martial artists. Therefor you must learn to accept help and knowledge where ever it's at and from who ever it is from.

But of course this would be a whole different case if your sensie is constantly leaving you under the custody of your fellow young karate practitioners and is rarely there to actually teach you by himself.

Secondly I'm concerned that I may be losing something in the traditional side of things. I was keen to compete and also maintain the traditional "art" side of MA, but I'm no longer this is possible. In terms of kata and techniques the club claims to combine many styles including Wado Ryu, Shotokan Ryu, Shito Ryu, Goju Ryu and Kyukoshinkai. Does this sound credible?

Absolutely not! You are to never stick to one way or style because then you'd never get the chance to discover different ways of doing things, therefor putting limits to the skills and abilities that you can acquire in terms of kumite and kata.

You will find that practicing katas from different styles of karate will in fact help you perform better in your main style no matter what it is. So don't worry, practicing other styles does not cause you to curve from the traditions of martial arts, that is totally wrong, and it does not replace your main concepts and fighting base but simply improves them to a level not possible to be reached if you were to stick to one way and style and refuse to benefit from other ones.

As for me, my main style is Shotokan but that is not my only way. I've been blessed with a sensie that teaches me all aspects of martial arts, giving me the power to separate sports competition fighting from full contact and real fighting, he also teaches us techniques from different styles such as jujitsu/judo/kickboxing with our main style still being Shotokan, but in order to get a taste of all that you need more time and dedication, as it is not possible to cover the sport side of martial arts and real fighting by simply training two days a week.

Just a note there, I'm in way saying that kumite has nothing to do with real fighting and full contact fighting, what I'm saying is that in order to condition yourself for actual fighting and full contact tournaments, your typical martial arts lesson most likely will not cover that part and you must either do that part by yourself at home or find an instructor that covers it as well.