Waveforms, Ballistic hand movements, Russell Stutely...

[Kajukenbopr]

i do all three. hapkido covers the external and internal, plus my instructor is a 3rd dan in jiu jitsu so we do a lot of grappling along with the hkd. and the moo duk kwan once again covers the external.

i usually think of internal arts as default Chinese internal arts. but im biased in this belief- I know there are more styles that are internal; aikido, judo, jujitsu, hapkido, some karate training can be considered internal,etc.

you practise the happy medium- correct body mechanics and energy manipulation and train to get strong muscles.

[bushido_man96]

As far as "internal" styles go, I don't have a lot of experience with them, and I don't think I would enjoy them. I don't get into meditation and the clearing of the mind very much. I would rather be drilling, but that is just me.

Also, as for circular or linear. I really don't think you can have one without the other. Both are beneficial, and I don't really believe that linear movements are harmful to the body. The two compliment each other very well, and learning both is important.

I see this in swordsmanship a lot; the arguement of the cut over the thrust. Both are beneficial, and both have their place.

[KarateEd]

Kajukenbopr,

Thanks for the links. I will check them out as soon as I get a chance.

Ed

[lordtariel]

I was fortunate that I found an instructor in tai chi who new some of the martial application behind it. It's been really good to teach me to adhere and redirect force. I've found that some of the principles I learned there are bleeding(figuratively ) over into karate.

[ps1]

I recently found out about 2 intriguing figures: Val Riazanov and Russell Stutely.

The reason I mention these 2 is because they are bringing concepts to the world of western martial arts, never before seen:

Val Riazanov- Ballistic Striking- can make strikes even from a lying on the ground position, be charged with enough strength to keep in the fight and possibly win. Not to mention, enhanced stand-up striking without straining the muscles.

What do you mean when you say "straining the muscles?" Are you talking about being too tense when striking?

Rusell Stutely- his work is amazing. Using a shotokan background, he found a way to use Waveform hits- no straining of the muscles, the hits use your maximum strength. Also, his knowledge on pressure points make his art EXTREMELY effective.

What called my attention to these 2 martial artists is how they are revolutionizing western martial arts. I say western martial arts because the concepts and applications, while not as readily shared with practicioners are present in chinese styles like Tai Chi, Xing Yi and BaguaZhang.

It turns out that these internal arts of martial arts where right all along-Natural Body Movements- relaxation of the body, proper body mechanics, striking certain points on the body,keeping balance and taking balance away from the opponent.

would anybody care to comment on this or go more into detail on this?

I'm not sure I'm following your point. I have never had anyone debate that the use of proper body mechanics and being relaxed are bad things or not the best way to do things. I think the usual argument against "internal" styles is in regard to the claims they tend to make about the use of chi/ki and pressure points. The usual agrument with "external" styles is people often feel they tend to be too tense (a huge misconception).

I study Poekoelan Chuan Fa Tjimindi and Teii (both are soft styles). I study Shotokan (Kwanmukan to be most specific) Karate (hard style). I also study Daito Ryu Aiki Jujitsu and Brazilian Jiujitsu (mostly soft styles). I'm not exactly sure how to answer your poll however. Two are grappling systems which focus on being soft but do not rely on pain compliance, rather biomechanical destruction of the opponent. Two are soft styles but not internal (no major focus on meditation and cultivation of chi but they are big on pressure points however). Karate is hard style and I suppose it would be external although it has a huge emphasis on pressure points also.

I do want to note that I'm not trying to be overly critical or argumentative here. I guess I'm just trying to get a better handle on what you consider internal vs. external. Is this interchangable with hard vs. soft? Also, I'll be the first to admit that my ignorance of the two individuals you mention hampers my ability to fully understand your point as well.

[Menjo]

Meh, this is nothing new at all.

Its common sense, thats all, just because its not complete garabage that alot of MAs use...doesnt mean its new to everyone or should be.

The problem is when articulation and popularity are more respected than skill and practice. This isnt new, and if anything its holding traditional arts on the same usual path of false self confidence.

I'm not saying that its not effective, its just that, skilled strikers know how to strike reasonably while on the ground, but in choice, because it depends on the skill of the opponent...ect.

[Kajukenbopr]

I was fortunate that I found an instructor in tai chi who new some of the martial application behind it. It's been really good to teach me to adhere and redirect force. I've found that some of the principles I learned there are bleeding(figuratively ) over into karate.

I'm finding a lot of Karate, TKD and other style instructors that are looking for answers that their teachers did not even begin to answer for them.

The place where they are looking for those answers- Chinese, Indian, Russian Martial Arts (which share a lot of concepts in common).

I'm not bashing on styles like Karate, they can be pretty effective when properly taught and properly trained for- I have a background of Karate myself, but it is not the only training I want for myself.

[Kajukenbopr]

I recently found out about 2 intriguing figures: Val Riazanov and Russell Stutely.

The reason I mention these 2 is because they are bringing concepts to the world of western martial arts, never before seen:

Val Riazanov- Ballistic Striking- can make strikes even from a lying on the ground position, be charged with enough strength to keep in the fight and possibly win. Not to mention, enhanced stand-up striking without straining the muscles.

What do you mean when you say "straining the muscles?" Are you talking about being too tense when striking?

Rusell Stutely- his work is amazing. Using a shotokan background, he found a way to use Waveform hits- no straining of the muscles, the hits use your maximum strength. Also, his knowledge on pressure points make his art EXTREMELY effective.

What called my attention to these 2 martial artists is how they are revolutionizing western martial arts. I say western martial arts because the concepts and applications, while not as readily shared with practicioners are present in chinese styles like Tai Chi, Xing Yi and BaguaZhang.

It turns out that these internal arts of martial arts where right all along-Natural Body Movements- relaxation of the body, proper body mechanics, striking certain points on the body,keeping balance and taking balance away from the opponent.

would anybody care to comment on this or go more into detail on this?

I'm not sure I'm following your point. I have never had anyone debate that the use of proper body mechanics and being relaxed are bad things or not the best way to do things. I think the usual argument against "internal" styles is in regard to the claims they tend to make about the use of chi/ki and pressure points. The usual agrument with "external" styles is people often feel they tend to be too tense (a huge misconception).

I study Poekoelan Chuan Fa Tjimindi and Teii (both are soft styles). I study Shotokan (Kwanmukan to be most specific) Karate (hard style). I also study Daito Ryu Aiki Jujitsu and Brazilian Jiujitsu (mostly soft styles). I'm not exactly sure how to answer your poll however. Two are grappling systems which focus on being soft but do not rely on pain compliance, rather biomechanical destruction of the opponent. Two are soft styles but not internal (no major focus on meditation and cultivation of chi but they are big on pressure points however). Karate is hard style and I suppose it would be external although it has a huge emphasis on pressure points also.

I do want to note that I'm not trying to be overly critical or argumentative here. I guess I'm just trying to get a better handle on what you consider internal vs. external. Is this interchangable with hard vs. soft? Also, I'll be the first to admit that my ignorance of the two individuals you mention hampers my ability to fully understand your point as well.

Yes, I am talking about being too tense. most external styles as are taught to move around while being soft and to tense up when striking back at the opponent. Breathing is taught a certain way too when practising external martial arts.

systems like jujitsu or judo are often seen as internal (well, jujitsu would be a medium, as it also works strikes) in their lack of tensing up for them to work, they rely on body mechanics instead of striking as hard as they can as fast as they can.

it could also be applied to hard versus soft though if i do say it like that a lot of people will say that every style is a mix, and that discussion will lead nowhere fast.

--no style uses no muscles at all, just the amount of strain they put on the muscles vary--

[Kajukenbopr]

As far as "internal" styles go, I don't have a lot of experience with them, and I don't think I would enjoy them. I don't get into meditation and the clearing of the mind very much. I would rather be drilling, but that is just me.

Also, as for circular or linear. I really don't think you can have one without the other. Both are beneficial, and I don't really believe that linear movements are harmful to the body. The two compliment each other very well, and learning both is important.

I see this in swordsmanship a lot; the arguement of the cut over the thrust. Both are beneficial, and both have their place.

Even a thrust can be circular though, same as a slash be linear.

I also like movement, not every meditation is sitting down in a comfortable position and thinking deep thoughts

I have meditations standing up, mental exercises coupled with movement, etc.

[bushido_man96]

Even a thrust can be circular though, same as a slash be linear.

At this point, you are splitting hairs, and negating the points of your own arguement as to internal/external/hard/soft.

However, I don't think your statement holds to be true. The thrust would liken to the hard, external straight strikes of TKD, Karate, etc. The cuts would liken to the soft, linear strikes of the Kung Fu, Aikido types.

Also, I would like to say that I don't view a slash, or cut, as a "soft" style of strike. Perhaps a parry would be, but I don't think a slash would be.