Sick and tired of people putting down kung fu....

[Kajukenbopr]

these videos are kung fu, not mma. i dont need to prove kung fu works. people who dont understand what they train for, damage the reputation, and yes, people can lose a fight even when they're really really good; to use mma examples matt hughes and chuck lydell - both excellent mma, both have been beaten.

as for anyone wanting to say that fine motor skill goes out the window when in a stressful environment let me remind you that repetitive training develops muscle memory: you dont have to think about the technique, the technique, or movements, come out as a reflex.

And finally, you can argue that weapons make martial arts obsolete, but we choose to train to better ourselves both physically and spiritually. Even a toddler can aim a gun and shoot;a martial artist can develop the power to hurt or heal another.

[NightOwl]

Historically speaking, the Chinese have been doing the equivalent of MMA for centuries, with anybody claiming to be a 'master' having bouts with other martial artists who wanted to see if they were legit to look forward to. Also, there are records of large tournaments being held, with entrants having to agree to a waiver against further legal action should they die in the process. Baijifan, Choy lee fut, many grappling styles, Southern mantis and wing chun ('ugly' kung fu), etc...CMAs have a lot to offer if you take the time to look at them. But first CMA practitioners have to get out there and take the initiative.

competing does not make them mma. it merely makes them fighters - what they should be anyway.

Well, MMA in the sense that it was people of various martial arts backgrounds competing against each other, enough to warrent the title MMA in its most literal sense.

Most 'masters' were knowledgeable in more than one martial art. This is not just true in china, but if you look at the founder of any art chances are that they have a background in more than one style.

What a lot of you are doing is comparing styles to mma.... I mean mma is good and all but what happens when i pull out a stick and hit you in the face, or four of us jump you? or i pull out a knife? what are you going to do then.... I mean in mma you are practically naked in a cage with rules... I mean there is nothing to compare there. Half the stuff we train they cant do. Also a comment on making all ma do mma style fightiing just wouldnt work in our style of kung fu. I mean just about everyone would either be dead or seriously hurt (broken neck, knee, fingers, eyes etc etc. Our style of kung fu is straight from the shaolin temples. My teachers teacher was a monk. So our stuff isnt fancy and just flashy it is meant to seriously hurt someone. Most things we train are for self defense not tourniment sparring. So for me to tourni spar i would have to forget just about everything i have learned and just kick box, and grapple. Our first rule of fighting is grab a weapon. Our style is meant for survival not just punching someone till he falls, we are going to break bones, rip throats out, gouge eyes etc etc. We do spar dont get me wrong, but its a lot different than just kicking someone and then calling a point...

I am going to have to agree with Cross and Nine_weapons here. Again, I have a great interest in styles like Bajiquan and southern mantis, but as I mentioned earlier in this post and wrote in my article (advertisement), shaolin monks practice a slightly modified version of wushu. While he may be a shaolin monk who has actually done the old curriculum, he'd probably be in his 90's by now if he was. Also, 'kill' techniques are not as easy to pull off as you might think. Have you tried actually ripping out the throat of a ballistics gel head? Not so easy (I'd imagine...I don't really have too many lying around). Eye attacks DO work, however as pointed out even when they were allowed in MMA they hardly meant instant victory- just another tool like kicks, punches, elbows, etc.

[bushido_man96]

What a lot of you are doing is comparing styles to mma.... I mean mma is good and all but what happens when i pull out a stick and hit you in the face, or four of us jump you? or i pull out a knife? what are you going to do then....

When it comes to this point, it doesn't really matter what you train in; your chances of defeating opponents under these circumstances is only the stuff of movies. If you get jumped by 4 guys, your are most likely going to get beat down by all 4 of them, regardless of what style you study.

[bushido_man96]

these videos are kung fu, not mma.

These videos are also pre-arranged choreography. Most show the attacker stopping after one initial attack. I am not going to discount the vialbilty of these styles from these videos, but the videos don't show much more than a one-step, from what I saw.

[Kajukenbopr]

these videos are kung fu, not mma.

These videos are also pre-arranged choreography. Most show the attacker stopping after one initial attack. I am not going to discount the vialbilty of these styles from these videos, but the videos don't show much more than a one-step, from what I saw.

these videos portray self defense. self defense doesnt imply having an all out fight on the street- before it escalates into a fight, an attacker doesnt know IF or WHEN you will attack, giving u an opening to hit where it counts and leave. Kenpo practitioners say that the best way to defend yourself(not fight) is to do it in less than 5 seconds- if it takes longer than that, its officially a "fight" and the situation gets riskier when the attacker is expecting you to try to harm them.

these videos obviously cant show the full depth of chinese martial arts but they do present good examples of material that works if applied correctly.

[bushido_man96]

these videos portray self defense. self defense doesnt imply having an all out fight on the street- before it escalates into a fight, an attacker doesnt know IF or WHEN you will attack...

But can you assume that you know when the attacker will attack? Will he attack just once? There are a lot of assumptions that it may be unsafe to make in self-defense. However, once you start attacking, that does not mean that the attacker will freeze up and not attack back.

Don't get me wrong; I think that some of the techniques shown in the videos are sound. Nor am I discounting what the stylists do. However, there are some things there that coincide with what some other styles do as well. Styles that make the transtition to competiton, as well.

[Kajukenbopr]

these videos portray self defense. self defense doesnt imply having an all out fight on the street- before it escalates into a fight, an attacker doesnt know IF or WHEN you will attack...

But can you assume that you know when the attacker will attack? Will he attack just once? There are a lot of assumptions that it may be unsafe to make in self-defense. However, once you start attacking, that does not mean that the attacker will freeze up and not attack back.

Don't get me wrong; I think that some of the techniques shown in the videos are sound. Nor am I discounting what the stylists do. However, there are some things there that coincide with what some other styles do as well. Styles that make the transtition to competiton, as well.

true, that is why you practice both the defenses and the fighting.

well taught kung fu has both the defenses, or form applications, and the fighting, or sanshou,sanda, or freesparring.

[bushido_man96]

true, that is why you practice both the defenses and the fighting.

well taught kung fu has both the defenses, or form applications, and the fighting, or sanshou,sanda, or freesparring.

Ah, thanks. I have seen the San Shou fights, and they are usually pretty good, other than the fact that one guy dominates the scene all of the time. Those that are that heavy into the San Shou aspect should be able to make the transition into the MMA scene very well, I think.

[NightOwl]

Those are one step training methods, however they definitely do have thier place. You want to do that type of training before applying it in a high stress environment, but again: you should eventually take it to that higher level. Below are some one step and light sparring videos. Are they perfect? Nope. Then again, look at other videos of any style (including MMA) that are not pro fights and many of them don't look like the next gracie.

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Baijiquan: known as the 'body guard style', its signature mark is its use of shoulder stikes in order to throw an opponent off balance.

One step drills:

Sparring: Note, the first one is a friendly match and it is obvious that the

Baijiquan guy has the weight advantage. However, you still do get to see implementation of the shoulder strike (look for it around 1:20)

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Wing Chun- One of the few styles started by...a woman. Supposedly the name comes from her first student. This one is more of a hodgepodge- you got one step, light to medium sparring, chi sao drills, and even one with a more mma feel (but if you look closely you can still see the wing chun moves). Again, are they are perfect? nope, but some aren't too bad either.

http://youtube.com/results?search_type=search_videos&search_query=wing%20chun%20sparring&search_sort=relevance&search_category=0&search=Search&v=&page=5

http://youtube.com/results?search_type=search_videos&search_query=wing%20chun%20sparring&search_sort=relevance&search_category=0&search=Search&v=&page=5

http://youtube.com/results?search_type=search_videos&search_query=wing%20chun%20sparring&search_sort=relevance&search_category=0&search=Search&v=&page=5

http://youtube.com/results?search_type=search_videos&search_query=wing%20chun%20sparring&search_sort=relevance&search_category=0&search=Search&v=&page=5

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sA3DpYDImAg&mode=related&search=

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Chao Gar (southern mantis)

This is a drill/ one step, but while it would not be as smooth in real life, these teqnuiqes could be trained with actual resistance. I'm sorry that I couldn't get much more, as I got tired of wading through Wushu mantis forms (and different mantis styles) trying to find something interesting on Chao Gar. I don't have anything to back this up I know, but supposedly Chao Gar students have done pretty well on the amateur MMA scene. Southern mantis is very similar to wing chun in many aspects, but unique in its own way. Kicks are waist high and below, and forearm strength is emphasized.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5FlPNrSDuqs

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While looking these up however, I came across many of the problems currently in the world of CMA. Looking up almost any style brought up dozens of hits, but most of the time the vast majority were in wushu forms. Many techniques and styles have gone extinct, as the original purpose (or even if there was much of one) is lost as applications are not practiced and great emphasis is placed on looking fancy. Northern styles are the most hard hit, and outside of a handful of arts, it is rare to find someone who actually has background training other than in just a form. I truly do hope that the continuing trend towards wushu will be overtaken by the emerging sport of Sanshou, and that people will take a step back and try to regain hundreds of years of lost history.

[mantis.style]

Perhaps the biggest problem that exists in Chinese Martial Arts training is that the training is mostly ignorant of other martial arts. A wing chun student will pretty much train with and against other wing chun people. Put them against a boxer/karateka/kickboxer who moves, hits and takes hits differently and things begin to become unstuck.