Sick and tired of people putting down kung fu....

[nine_weapons]

There is a place for competition, but in many ways competition is also biased, and records are not tell alls about a person, instruction or style. Any sport has rules which can make a difference in a persons success based on style. I would have a hell of a time fighting in a Tae Kwon Do ruled match, pure pointfighting or even wrestling, does this make me a poor fighter? Does it make me less of an instructor? Will it weed me out as not as good? I would think no, it is the boundries set by the rules that work against me and my style, not the validity of what we do. Just like any of those styles may find difficulty in a San Shou ring, because there style is not suited to the system of rules.

Sticking with your example, if I am looking to train kung fu, I would be looking for results in THAT venue. I wouldn't expect them to enter TKD or wrestling tourneys - I would be looking for san shou and hopefully (although unlikely) mma.

Does lack of competition make you less of an instructor? IMO, it is all about experience. someone who has never fought in a ring has no business teaching someone how to fight in one. Someone who has never had a streetfight in their adult life has no business teaching someone how to defend themselves on the street, as they do not have the experience of doing it. I think this lack of fighting has been a contributing factor to what you see in schools today - lots of forms and point style fighting. From what I understand, back in the day, styles had few forms - some styles only had one. Most of their time was spent drilling, in contrast to now, where many (not all) schools put a priority on forms.

That being said I believe competition can be a healthy component of any martial art regiment, but people need to understand that competition whether it be san shou, pint fighting, no-holds, ufc, shootifghting, wrestling, judo, boxing or otherwise is just that, competition, and is a far cry from reality.

1. it's not about being close to reality - it's about fighting experience period

2. not all exponents have even had a real fight, so reality has no bearing in that case anyway. The full contact fighters have more overall experience that these people.

I would argue that competition should be required for all MA at some point.

[bushido_man96]

I would argue that competition should be required for all MA at some point.

I can understand an arguement of this point. I am not sure how much I would support it, but I can understand it. With that said, would the competitons have to be based on the MMA style of competition? Or the style of competition based on the system that the student studies?

[nine_weapons]

just on what the student studies, though mma would be great. Some pressure testing is needed at some point - classroom sparring simply doesn't mimic the intensity, and the process of training for a competition teaches you a lot about yourself.

[bushido_man96]

just on what the student studies, though mma would be great. Some pressure testing is needed at some point - classroom sparring simply doesn't mimic the intensity, and the process of training for a competition teaches you a lot about yourself.

I agree. When I competed, I always got so wound up because of the nerves. It is definitely good to get that experience. You also learn a lot, too.

[NightOwl]

In my opinion (keep in mind that's a disclaimer to take the following with a grain of salt...or two), Kung fu has gotten so much hate in the martial world because it has had a troubled history both past and present. Mainland Chinese martial arts, including those at the shaolin temple, have been so mixed up with contemporary wushu, that frankly it is hard to find something...martial. And let's face it, what looks and sells better to the average consumer? 'Monkey Style' kung fu showing off amazing flips, quirky monkey antics, and pole climbing- or a martial art with a low stance and an emphasis on ground fighting? The infrequent and always low kicks of southern mantis and wing chun- or a 360 butterfly kick demonstrated by a 'shaolin master'? Add this in with many people not really wanting to learn how to fight when they sign up for martial arts (but rather the feeling that they are learning self defense), a lack of legitimate stylists, thousands more fakes who claim to be kung fu masters, and almost no CMA stylists entering into the MMA trend, and you have a problem. Trust me, I have a soft spot for CMAs and really want to see them come out stronger, but as a whole there are many many issues to sort out, first of which is to stop trying to be like wushu. Historically speaking, the Chinese have been doing the equivalent of MMA for centuries, with anybody claiming to be a 'master' having bouts with other martial artists who wanted to see if they were legit to look forward to. Also, there are records of large tournaments being held, with entrants having to agree to a waiver against further legal action should they die in the process. Baijifan, Choy lee fut, many grappling styles, Southern mantis and wing chun ('ugly' kung fu), etc...CMAs have a lot to offer if you take the time to look at them. But first CMA practitioners have to get out there and take the initiative.

[Kajukenbopr]

i agree.

most people,specially in America have never heard of the styles: bajiquan,piguaquan, tong bei, mian quan, fanzi, mizong(jet li's fearless),yiquan.

most material out of china is wushu but you can still get material that really works( just look for applications, not just the forms).

[Justin Treadaway]

What a lot of you are doing is comparing styles to mma.... I mean mma is good and all but what happens when i pull out a stick and hit you in the face, or four of us jump you? or i pull out a knife? what are you going to do then.... I mean in mma you are practically naked in a cage with rules... I mean there is nothing to compare there. Half the stuff we train they cant do. Also a comment on making all ma do mma style fightiing just wouldnt work in our style of kung fu. I mean just about everyone would either be dead or seriously hurt (broken neck, knee, fingers, eyes etc etc. Our style of kung fu is straight from the shaolin temples. My teachers teacher was a monk. So our stuff isnt fancy and just flashy it is meant to seriously hurt someone. Most things we train are for self defense not tourniment sparring. So for me to tourni spar i would have to forget just about everything i have learned and just kick box, and grapple. Our first rule of fighting is grab a weapon. Our style is meant for survival not just punching someone till he falls, we are going to break bones, rip throats out, gouge eyes etc etc. We do spar dont get me wrong, but its a lot different than just kicking someone and then calling a point...

[cross]

What a lot of you are doing is comparing styles to mma.... I mean mma is good and all but what happens when i pull out a stick and hit you in the face, or four of us jump you? or i pull out a knife? what are you going to do then.... I mean in mma you are practically naked in a cage with rules... I mean there is nothing to compare there. Half the stuff we train they cant do. Also a comment on making all ma do mma style fightiing just wouldnt work in our style of kung fu. I mean just about everyone would either be dead or seriously hurt (broken neck, knee, fingers, eyes etc etc. Our style of kung fu is straight from the shaolin temples. My teachers teacher was a monk. So our stuff isnt fancy and just flashy it is meant to seriously hurt someone.

Unless you have actually performed these "deadly" techniques you mention, in training over and over, then regardless of how lethal they potentially are, chances are you will not have the composure to perform them in a real situation. The thing about mma, is that there is a real fully resisting opponent, and you are really trying to hurt each other. That it far closer to reality, and will serve a person much better in self defense then doing a form that has a neck breaking technique.

[nine_weapons]

Historically speaking, the Chinese have been doing the equivalent of MMA for centuries, with anybody claiming to be a 'master' having bouts with other martial artists who wanted to see if they were legit to look forward to. Also, there are records of large tournaments being held, with entrants having to agree to a waiver against further legal action should they die in the process. Baijifan, Choy lee fut, many grappling styles, Southern mantis and wing chun ('ugly' kung fu), etc...CMAs have a lot to offer if you take the time to look at them. But first CMA practitioners have to get out there and take the initiative.

competing does not make them mma. it merely makes them fighters - what they should be anyway.

[nine_weapons]

What a lot of you are doing is comparing styles to mma.... I mean mma is good and all but what happens when i pull out a stick and hit you in the face, or four of us jump you? or i pull out a knife? what are you going to do then.... I mean in mma you are practically naked in a cage with rules... I mean there is nothing to compare there.

you pull out a knife, they pull one too. I ALWAYS have mine with me. Why do some tma guys love to think that because they train a traditional style, they are the only ones with weapons? what does your stick or knife do against my 9mm? What happens when you put the mma guy in a street fight? his punches, kicks, knees and takedowns hurt just as badly.

Half the stuff we train they cant do. Also a comment on making all ma do mma style fightiing just wouldnt work in our style of kung fu. I mean just about everyone would either be dead or seriously hurt (broken neck, knee, fingers, eyes etc etc.

I have seen several TMA guys get mauled in streetfights. Any idea why this happens? matter of fact, have you ever seen the match between gerard gordeau and yuki nakai? in those days eye gouges were permissable - you would be penalized and fined, but not disqualified. gordeau put his finger knuckle deep in nakai's eye - nakai STILL won that match AND the match after that. nakai is now blind in that eye, but he won the fight. Had it been life or death, he would be blinded, but gordeau would be dead.

Our style of kung fu is straight from the shaolin temples. My teachers teacher was a monk. So our stuff isnt fancy and just flashy it is meant to seriously hurt someone.

the monks at the temples of today do wushu...

Most things we train are for self defense not tourniment sparring.

knees, takedowns punches and elbows are great for self defense. You have no advantage over the mma guy on the street.

So for me to tourni spar i would have to forget just about everything i have learned and just kick box, and grapple.

unlikely.

Our first rule of fighting is grab a weapon.

Like I said, I have a knife on me at all times.

Our style is meant for survival not just punching someone till he falls, we are going to break bones, rip throats out, gouge eyes etc etc. We do spar dont get me wrong, but its a lot different than just kicking someone and then calling a point...

what does calling a point have to do with mma?