Sick and tired of people putting down kung fu....

[bushido_man96]

I always liked the concepts behind the JKD applications. I would love to be near a school to learn it.

[RealWingChunKuen]

I always liked the concepts behind the JKD applications. I would love to be near a school to learn it.

A lot of the phylosophy in JKD have been part of kung fu training concepts for centuries .

[nine_weapons]

I am so sick and tired of people putting down kung fu... I hear it all the time that it doesnt help in a real situation..... I am not sure about everyones elses school but everything we learn, we learn the combat application to it. Before we move to a different form we have to do it normal speed, tai chi speed(really slow but controlled), and combat speed. We also have to break every single move down in the form and explain the combat application of it. If you dont learn the combat application of a form or kata you just learned a dance. I know kung fu moves somtimes look silly but there is combat application to it. A lot of people dont know that the moves are hidden within the forms so other people cant just watch and learn them. You have to have someone that actually knows what the form means and its application or its pretty much just a dance with kicks and punchs, the same for any style for that matter. I mean pretty much every style has origins in kung fu. So when people put down kung fu they are putting down their own style. I dont know one move that is in any style that isnt taught eventually in kung fu.... I also read that kung fu doesnt teach any ground/grappling. Our school starts teaching it at brown belt and its pretty intense and effective...

1. the origin of the style really doesn't matter. they have changed SO much over the years that they are now their own styles. In addition, several styles - jujutsu (no verifiable link) and thus judo, bjj, etc have no link to china. western grappling systems don't either. In fact, EVERY culture since the beginning of time has had some indigenous wrestling art.

2. forms and applications are fine and good, but are only part of the picture.

3. why do people still care? if you don't like the lack of respect a style gets, there are really only two things you can do about it - do what you can to change it, or let it go. In this day and age, it is no secret that CMA guys typically get owned in mma although there are some good fighters competing. As long as they are losing, it will NEVER be a style that is taken seriously as a style used in mma. And mma is becoming the new boxing, so kung fu will also have a lack of respect among the general population. It will remain this way until at least two kung fu guys become successful in major mma shows.

[Kajukenbopr]

I am so sick and tired of people putting down kung fu... I hear it all the time that it doesnt help in a real situation..... I am not sure about everyones elses school but everything we learn, we learn the combat application to it. Before we move to a different form we have to do it normal speed, tai chi speed(really slow but controlled), and combat speed. We also have to break every single move down in the form and explain the combat application of it. If you dont learn the combat application of a form or kata you just learned a dance. I know kung fu moves somtimes look silly but there is combat application to it. A lot of people dont know that the moves are hidden within the forms so other people cant just watch and learn them. You have to have someone that actually knows what the form means and its application or its pretty much just a dance with kicks and punchs, the same for any style for that matter. I mean pretty much every style has origins in kung fu. So when people put down kung fu they are putting down their own style. I dont know one move that is in any style that isnt taught eventually in kung fu.... I also read that kung fu doesnt teach any ground/grappling. Our school starts teaching it at brown belt and its pretty intense and effective...

1. the origin of the style really doesn't matter. they have changed SO much over the years that they are now their own styles. In addition, several styles - jujutsu (no verifiable link) and thus judo, bjj, etc have no link to china. western grappling systems don't either. In fact, EVERY culture since the beginning of time has had some indigenous wrestling art.

2. forms and applications are fine and good, but are only part of the picture.

3. why do people still care? if you don't like the lack of respect a style gets, there are really only two things you can do about it - do what you can to change it, or let it go. In this day and age, it is no secret that CMA guys typically get owned in mma although there are some good fighters competing. As long as they are losing, it will NEVER be a style that is taken seriously as a style used in mma. And mma is becoming the new boxing, so kung fu will also have a lack of respect among the general population. It will remain this way until at least two kung fu guys become successful in major mma shows.

Most kung fu practitioners dont train for ring oriented fights.

you can say they have not been PORTRAED well on mma competitions, but its not because they dont work, it is not the style, its the practitioner.

depending on the environment, the rules and the place, the styles will change and be set.

MMA fights are only part of the picture for kung fu

[Kajukenbopr]

http://www.cmaod.com/SpecialMilitaryForceDVD.html

[Iron Arahat]

To be honest, what does it matter if people put down kung fu or not? The truth of the matter is that if people are overconfident, because they feel kung fu is to "fancy" or "flowery", that is good for the practitioner, being underestimated is a great advantage.

Bad rap because you don't fight in tournaments, again who cares? Tournament fighting is not a real fight. Don't get me wrong competition can give you some great experience and skills, that can help translate into the real world.

Most Chinese systems have great depth, but finding a quality instructor like any art can be the largest issue.

[nine_weapons]

Most kung fu practitioners dont train for ring oriented fights.

you are absolutely correct. But training methodology can be changed. It HAS to be changed if they EVER wish to compete in these events. And it's not really a drastic change.

you can say they have not been PORTRAED well on mma competitions, but its not because they dont work, it is not the style, its the practitioner.

it's not the person, it's actually more of the style - you stated that yourself above in so many words... CMA does not train properly for the ring, as you said - that is a style issue, no? Even if a person did want to compete using kung fu, the first thing he would have to do is change his training methodology, which was directly influenced by the style he trains. That doesn't mean kung fu sucks, it just means they don't train properly for full contact venues.

depending on the environment, the rules and the place, the styles will change and be set.

Any good martial artist should be able to adapt to a situation. what style you train shouldn't dictate that.

MMA fights are only part of the picture for kung fu

fighting in general is only part of the picture for ANY ma - that is not unique to kung fu.

[nine_weapons]

To be honest, what does it matter if people put down kung fu or not? The truth of the matter is that if people are overconfident, because they feel kung fu is to "fancy" or "flowery", that is good for the practitioner, being underestimated is a great advantage.

I don't think underestimation is the issue, it's demonstrated effectiveness - notice how in this day and age, most of the "kung fu success stories" revolve around "master x was undefeated in 100 challenge matches", or "my teacher says he has never lost a street fight", etc. stories that are unverifiable. But whenever you actually SEE kung fu, they are losing. (keep in mind that the mainstream public has no idea what san shou is, where there are cma winning)

Bad rap because you don't fight in tournaments, again who cares? Tournament fighting is not a real fight. Don't get me wrong competition can give you some great experience and skills, that can help translate into the real world.

I will defer this to your next statement...

Most Chinese systems have great depth, but finding a quality instructor like any art can be the largest issue.

THAT is why competition is important. today, as I stated before, the success stories of cma revolve around unverifiable claims. As such, you can't really weed out the good teachers from the bad ones, in the sense of who can really fight and who can't. sport fighting styles don't have this problem. competition will weed out who is good and who is not as good. And many venues now keep records that you can look up online. many people today put their fights online also, so that you can actually see them fighting. competition is by no means everything, but is helpful in MANY ways.

[Kajukenbopr]

your teacher doesnt have to teach you how to train for full contact sports if you can hold your own. yes, it can help in the street if you know how to handle mma competitions, but chinese full contact sparring(sanshou) should me more than enough.

it is not the the style it is the practitioner; like Iron Arahat mentioned, if your teacher doesnt know how to teach you correctly, that single practitioner leads the rest of his student to incorrectly train.

[nine_weapons]

your teacher doesnt have to teach you how to train for full contact sports if you can hold your own. yes, it can help in the street if you know how to handle mma competitions, but chinese full contact sparring(sanshou) should me more than enough.

1. not all cma schools teach san shou. Heck, not even all of them spar. And of the ones that do spar, the sparring is sometimes either point style or continuous. Neither of those are sufficient for full contact training and fighting.

2. there are nuances of the ring that need to be trained regardless of being able to "hold your own". In addition, you have to train for the fight - that includes everything from training for a specific opponent (if you know who he is) to training for the length of the rounds so that your timing doesn't get messed up. Notice that I am speaking about training for the ring, what a person thinks they can do in the street is irrelevant to my post.

it is not the the style it is the practitioner; like Iron Arahat mentioned, if your teacher doesnt know how to teach you correctly, that single practitioner leads the rest of his student to incorrectly train.

it's the training methods and the style. Then the practitioner. The person that teach you is teaching according to his style, no? whether he is good or bad, the practitioner is teaching you a style. Everything you are doing is based on that style.

But actually, we can classify it two different ways.

for the ring:

training methods

style

pracitioner

for the street:

training methods

practitioner

style

IMO, anyway.