Sick and tired of people putting down kung fu....

[NightOwl]

Here's an interesting article on Boxing and WC:

http://home.vtmuseum.org/articles/crescione/wcvsboxing.php

And an interesting look at the origins of the art:

http://home.vtmuseum.org/articles/loewenhagen/myths.php

http://home.vtmuseum.org/articles/loewenhagen/step_forward.php

And yes, sometimes it seems like WC is the best art for fighting someone using...WC. However, WCers at least have somewhat of a more open record of experimentation by taking on other styles (and even sometimes competing). No, by studying WC you will not learn great grappling, nor will you get the best kicks or punches. But you do get a unique overall package, which can hold its own if the person has some experience under their belt. Yes, the criticism that WCers get too used to fighting just each other is valid, but not entirely. You also have to keep in mind that different WC circles could have completely different attitudes on training. Pretty much all WC is supposed to come from Yip Man right? Then why are there so many divisions in the art since all those who passed it on learned the exact same curriculum from the same guy? The answer is that that techniques are just part of the experience- how they are trained can change things dramatically.

[Kajukenbopr]

i was trained in wing chun for a while to fight better against a boxer- first thing i was taught was footwork to keep up with the attacker, then blocks and finally, blocks combined with punches.

in a relatively short time i was able to fight a guy that had been training in boxing for a couple of years and definitely had more experience than me.we were only allowed to use hands, not kicks, clinches were allowed. I won the sparring match, as he wasnt able to land a single punch on me, everywhere he turned, I kept crowding him. Note, the guy i sparred with was bigger by about 4-5 inches and 30 pounds heavier and im not ashamed to say, was at the time in better shape than i was.

i wasnt allowed to use kicks against him which would have stopped the guy faster, but i was fine because i didnt try to out-box him. I used what my friend taught me and applied it the whole time.

there are people in this forum that know a LOT more wing Chun than me, but i can tell u from experience that the training works wonders against boxers and karatekas

[Justin Treadaway]

Changquan (long fist)

A northern martial art with an emphasis on long range attacks suck as kicks and long punches, the point is to try to keep your opponent at a distance and hit them from there. There are actually take down and grappling techniques, however those are not practiced anymore outside of forms because....it is now one of the foundation arts of contemporary wushu. All forms for this art in wushu were standardized by the Chinese government, and when you see those forms with the huge butterfly kicks, side somersaults, and lots and lots of 'tricking', it's a good bet that it is Changquan .

.

Actually we train the combat application of it. It is incorperated in our style. We learn every form and break the whole form down and apply its combat application. Also we incorperate a lot of older styles such as gung lee that were inbetween the seperation of tai chi and kung fu. If you trully understand kung fu softness/circuler most of the chinese styles are very similar.

[nine_weapons]

On another note, Nine_weapons' friend would have been fine had he adapted his attack to an active environment. The fact that he can get in 3 hits against a mauy tai guy is great- the concepts behind the move are sound.

I'm nitpicking, but I wasn't training muay thai then. this was back in the mid 90s when i was still training karate.

However he stuck too robotically to the technique by trying to play out the whole thing just as he was always shown, and therein lies the problem with one step drills. Train in them too much, and you become too reliant. You need to constantly change tactics and adapt while in a fight, and sometimes I think that training too much in such a way provides a sense of overconfidence.

very true. That is pretty much what I told him.

Next note.....

On the whole spirituality thing- I can respect that you get some sort of spiritual feeling from your martial art- but thats not the real purpose of studying something martial. Studying martial arts as part of a spiritual experience is somewhat of a modern sell- Martial artists have never been all gentleman warriors. Martial artists in China would brawl, not to heighten themselves spiritually, but just to see who was a better fighter (in fact, duels were banned after the 20th C). Yes, monks studied martial arts- so did gang members, secret societies, and overall not so nice guys. Taking an example from Japan- by the time Judo was coming about, Jujutsu practitioners had gained somewhat of a reputation as ruffians.

very true. people think about MA and think about honor and monks. They don't think about tongs, triads, duels to the death, etc.

[mantis.style]

Pretty much all WC is supposed to come from Yip Man right? Then why are there so many divisions in the art since all those who passed it on learned the exact same curriculum from the same guy? The answer is that that techniques are just part of the experience- how they are trained can change things dramatically.

Nope.

Not all wing chun comes from Yip Man. I have learnt from 3 schools, one of which was a branch off before Yip Man and one that was a contemporary of Yip Man as well as the more usual Yip Man line schools.

[nine_weapons]

WC is riddled with political battles...

[mantis.style]

It only affects you if you let it. And let's be honest here, there are only maybe 3 schools that bicker between themselves. When's the last time you heard a proper Yuen Kay Shan student, or a Pan Nam student, or a Gee Shim student or even Jiu Wan or Lee Shing or Wong Shun Leung student take part in any of that?

More often than not, it's the students that are the worst offenders. Admittedly, if th school doesn't push a certain "belief" it won't happen but still, I know some guys from one of the bickering schools that are pretty much "pfft, who cares" type of person.

[NightOwl]

here you go guys...an interesting group trying to put more martial applications into taichiquan. Apparently they are somewhat controversial, but this attitude is something than CMAs need at the moment I think.

http://martialtaichi.co.uk/index.html

http://martialtaichi.co.uk/articles/time_to_get_tough.php

Also, has anyone read this book?

Chinese Martial Arts Training Manuals: A Historical Survey (Paperback) http://www.amazon.com/Chinese-Martial-Arts-Training-Manuals/dp/1556435576/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/103-5165934-2770201?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1187416028&sr=8-1

it seemes like an interesting look into the issue 9at least in a historical sense)

[ironsifu]

people are going to put down any art when it is popular. in a way, it is good for those of us who are strong, because your opponents have a disadvantage when they believe you are a weak fighter, and find out later that your not.

the answer is, to train hard and become a good example of your fighting style. get lots of sparring practice so that you know how to use your techniques, then finally, get out there and show what you can do. after you are done proving yourself, teach what your good at and give your students the knowledge you developed while you were fighting. this is the stages of becoming a teacher, that sad to say this, but most of us skip. especially in the "modern martial arts" world, where people study and art, and they expect to become an expert or teacher in 4 or 5 years. they study an art, and 2 or 3 years later they have a certificate in their hand, which they never proved themself to get it. so you have is, a guy with forms and no skill.

kung fu people get dogged out because most of us only practice form, and never develop or display the fighting skill we have.

[bushido_man96]

Very nice sites, NightOwl. Those associated with it are very straightforward about what they plan to accomplish, aren't they?

(By the way, that book title you put out keeps taunting me! Since it is pretty cheap, I may have to order...soon...)