Deadly techniques - are you prepared?

[cross]

The thing about self-defense is that there are so many variables that you may or may not have to account for. If you train to slap people who attack you on the wrist, they are going to sluff it off, and then do some real damage to you. It is like I mentioned earlier; if you try to fight someone who is trying to kill you, you will most likely be in for a rude awakening.

Definetly. The level of force you need to use will likely be directly proportional to the threat you are facing.

[The BB of C]

To fulfill it, you must be willing to never cause permanent damage or kill anyone in a conflict.

This code also means that you preserve yourself as a human. It teaches the people who train this style that if they find themselves in a dangerous situation, to remove themselves and/or whoever else may be involved in the situation as quickly as possible without anyone getting seriously injured.

How does this work with teaching children? They don't know what they'll grow up to be or do.

I don't know any good or high quality teachers that would disagree with getting out of a dangerous situation as the FIRST option. However, if that is impossible, and pressure points are known to be extremely ineffective in life/death struggles, how do you teach your students to cope with that situation? If a student's child's life is in danger, should they allow their child to be killed just to avoid breaking the code? If so, how is allowing someone to be killed/injured considered any different from doing it themselves?

Don't get me wrong. I'm not saying your beliefs are incorrect. Quite the contrary actually. I think you have the a great moral standard I just wonder if it's realistic or applicable to a life/death situation.

Also, I chose not to PM you on this because I think it will make for a great discussion. Hope you don't take offense to that.

To answer your first question, we don't teach anyone under 13-years-old. And we have been debating moving it up to 15 or even 16 years of age.

We don't know yet. We're still studying and experimenting with techniques, ways of training, everything. We research into learning as many different (non-lethal) techniques as possible involving throws, striking, pressure points, ground combat, practical weapons, MA-style weapons (ex. katanas, nunchucks, bo-staffs, whatever we can get our hands on).

The scenario of a trainee's child being in danger, I would hope that the trainee would remember their training. To get everyone out of there without anyone being maimed or killed. As long as we don't do any kind of permanent damage, I don't believe we do anything wrong in defending ourselves. We also wouldn't allow people to be killed in the altercation, but we always try our best and use 130% of our power to make sure it doesn't happen. Of course sometimes something may go wrong. That's all I can really say for that, unfortunately.

But as for right now, all of this comes back to that we simply don't know how yet. We're keeping our code in mind and keep on studying. Continuously absorbing, learning, and teaching ourselves, building towards our goal to be a non-lethal Ninjitsu (if you understand what I'm trying to say with that phrase).

As for not wanting to private message me with your questions; perfectly alright. I understand why would want to bring the discussion here. I just wanted to private message or instant message because it would have been easier for me to answer questions as opposed to checking back at this thread constantly.

its a bit extreme to say that anyone would let their children die.

they would probably however, avoid having to kill the person: knocking out or crippling the opponent is a better outcome for them than killing an attacker

That is close. But we wouldn’t cripple someone unless it was temporary. IE breaking a leg. If it causes any permanent damage, it would be very minimal and not anything we would think too highly of.

And to Bushido_man96 and Cross:

I understand what you're saying. But we're going to try anyway. I honestly think we'll succeed eventually too.

I would like you to take in mind how bad we are at the martial arts. I'll openly admit I stink and I don't know a lot about them. I set down that code and started developing the concepts of Cannon Style in my own desperate means for defending myself against bullies at school. The first and only remaining of my Cannon Style experiment friends has told me a story of when someone he knew explicitly threatened his life a number of times. Then, one day, the two of them got in a brutal fight. My friend does describe it as the other guy tring to kill him, though I'm not sure how bad it was for myself. My friend was able to knock him out with the very little amount of training he had from me in our code and concepts. The way we designed the ranking system in Cannon Style, it's meant so that each generation of practicioners gets stronger and stronger.

Knowing that, I believe that we will be able to reach our tall order goal someday in the future if we can hold our own knowing absolutely nothing today in the presant.

[ps1]

Ok, thanks and good luck.

[USCMAAI]

All of these posts have been very interesting! I would have to disagree with any hard and fast rule against killing. If saving the life of my children meant killing the attacker. HE IS DEAD! No if ands or buts about it. I am generally a peace loving man, and am opposed to violence for violecne sake. But if my life or the lives of my love ones are at stake and the only option available is the taking of someones life. So be it. As I have said, I have had to take lives before, and did not enjoy this one bit, but felt justified and although I have some remorse for those actions, I have found that over the years this pain has gotten less as well.

[smckeown]

Maybe I am over simplifing this a bit but if say my family was in danger...

If its going to be him or me/my family, its going to be him...

Scott

[Existence_is _suffering]

I really can not think of a situation that I can imagine me using a so-called "death technique"... Not that I'm a highly trained killing-machine but I think there are so many alternatives to actually killing someone,. even if it requires more effort, I think it's worth avoiding the murder trial

[username8517]

I would have to disagree with any hard and fast rule against killing. If saving the life of my children meant killing the attacker. HE IS DEAD! No if ands or buts about it. I am generally a peace loving man, and am opposed to violence for violecne sake. But if my life or the lives of my love ones are at stake and the only option available is the taking of someones life. So be it.

Quoted as it sums up my thoughts on this whole matter perfectly

[NightOwl]

I'm wondering how you can train these effectively. I mean yeah, when you had duels to the death you MIGHT have gotten some practice in but... its hard to train resistance when your object is to use a technique that either maims or kills your partner. I guess you could do eye gouge training with goggles- and it'd be interesting to go to town on some ballistics gel...

[bushido_man96]

There are ways to train them. Most of the time, you would just train on the ways to get where you need to be, the set-ups, I guess. When the opportunity is there, you take it, if it is justifiable.

Training with fruit is a good way to kind of get a feel for what it may be like. Loren Christensen talked about a drill in one of his books where one partner lies on the ground with goggles on. The other partner kneels, and with a piece of fruit on the goggles, starts to dig his fingers into it. While doing that, the partner that is "getting his eye dug out" starts to flail, yell, and writhe in pain, to simulate the reactions of doing such a thing.

[NightOwl]

There are ways to train them. Most of the time, you would just train on the ways to get where you need to be, the set-ups, I guess. When the opportunity is there, you take it, if it is justifiable.

Training with fruit is a good way to kind of get a feel for what it may be like. Loren Christensen talked about a drill in one of his books where one partner lies on the ground with goggles on. The other partner kneels, and with a piece of fruit on the goggles, starts to dig his fingers into it. While doing that, the partner that is "getting his eye dug out" starts to flail, yell, and writhe in pain, to simulate the reactions of doing such a thing.

Sorry, but I laughed a bit when I pictured a soccer mom looking to take her 9 year old into martial arts and seeing this drill as soon as she walks in the door...