Bunkai Clips?

[GOM]

The problem with the "bunkai" being thrown around today is the reverse-engineering, the process of trying to fit an application to a modern move in a modern kata. Kata have been altered, watered down - blocks becoming strikes, strikes becoming blocks, longer stances for physical development, jodan strikes becoming chudan strikes, open hands becoming closed, gedan kicks becoming chudan kicks, etc.

To fully understand the applications (bunkai) in modern kata, one has to research older versions of kata.

The three elements fonud in kata - one for show, one for practise, and one for application. Finding a teacher who understands this and can show you which move is which in kata is essential.

[Zanshin]

The question I struggle with is whether kata had a fixed bunkai when they were originally created. If so, and we don't know it anymore, we're missing something that the originators had in mind for us.

For example, Abernethey believes many of the nukite strikes in kata are not direct strikes to the body, because the fingertips are not the best choice of weapon for a target in the abdominal region (sure, you could make it work after a fashion, but why not use seiken or haito)?

Instead, his bunkai assumes that a previous technique has moved the opponents head down to chudan level, and the target for the nukite is therefor the throat or eyes. For example, you might have pulled them in or down with a hikite, or maybe a low leg kick, or they've doubled over in reaction to a chudan strike, etc. It makes a lot of sense to me...

If this is true, then anyone practicing kata imagining nukite strikes to the solar plexus is a little off base, no?

Nukite is purely a way to describe the shape of the hand ie spear hand and is does not necessarily imply that you strike with the point of the spear (ie your fingertips), I think that’s a common misconception.

It’s probably better looked at as a good way to increase the length of your arm and therefore giving you greater leverage. It is a very good example of how bunkai is misunderstood.

Personally I would never strike any part of the body with my finger tips.

Mr Abernetheys books (enjoyable as they may be for some), are no substitute for training with a knowledgeable instructor, and in some cases can undermine an instructors principles of teaching.

[bushido_man96]

Mr Abernetheys books (enjoyable as they may be for some), are no substitute for training with a knowledgeable instructor, and in some cases can undermine an instructors principles of teaching.

It is just another opinion to seek out and try. It doesn't have to undermine what someone else is doing. It can be a supplement to it.

As long as it works in an efficient and effective way, then wouldn't it be an applicable bunkai?

[Zanshin]

Mr Abernetheys books (enjoyable as they may be for some), are no substitute for training with a knowledgeable instructor, and in some cases can undermine an instructors principles of teaching.

It is just another opinion to seek out and try. It doesn't have to undermine what someone else is doing. It can be a supplement to it.

As long as it works in an efficient and effective way, then wouldn't it be an applicable bunkai?

I am probably being a little unfair as a have only seen clips of his work.

But what I have seen (which has been corroborated by feed back that I have read from many senior Karate sources), shows him demonstrating applications in a somewhat static way. By this I mean he demonstrates a variety of techniques against an opponent (all very interesting), but it seems to miss out an important element in my eyes and that is correct manoeuvring of the body. The way you body moves against your opponent is the best technique you have.

When performing kata you should never find yourself in a position where you have stopped! (in the sense that your weight settles). The Japanese have an expression for this, its called "itsuki" which sort of means that you have become stuck.

Correctly; katas should be performed so that they are "Ikita" or living katas.

The applications shown in the clips I have seen are in contradiction to this principle so that’s why I say it may undermine what is being taught at some dojo.

[bushido_man96]

If you look into his "Applied Karate" concepts, you will see that he has various stages of performance, the final stage being a type of "bunkai sparring" in which both individuals are actively resisting.

[Zanshin]

If you look into his "Applied Karate" concepts, you will see that he has various stages of performance, the final stage being a type of "bunkai sparring" in which both individuals are actively resisting.

I haven't seen this so cant comment on them.

From what you have described it sounds a bit like what we refer to in Wado as Ohyo Kumite.

The Wado approach to "bunkai" within Katas is slightly different to other styles, in that we have something called "Kaisetsu" which is where we make a physical comment about a particular move in the Kata IE Shuto.

Through a series of Paired katas they are then fine tuned using an Uke, culminating in Jiyu Kumite which is free fighting.

So why do the Katas in the first place then, when we have taken most of the moves out of them, practiced them using numerous different approaches and ultimately become effecient in using them?

Answer – To learn the principles of movement against one or more oponent.

Wado approach is different to other styles but not better, just another way to skin the same cat.

[johno]

You should try Iain Abernethy. He has some wonderful practical ideas on kata & bunkai. https://www.iainabernethy.com

Ajay

Although I don't have a problem in principle with what he is promoting as so called "bunkai-jutsu", I am wrestling with the pedigree of the process.

His core training is apparently in Wado ryu, but I know from 20 + years of experience in Wado ryu that "Bunkai" in this form does not exist in Wado. So it leaves me scratching my head!

.

Hi there, Ref Iain Abernethy.

He also belongs to the British Combat Association along with Geoff Thompson .

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geoff_Thompson

and

Peter Constantine.

I think given that kind of expertise available I think it would indicate some pedigree in the proccess.

I dont think karate styles are that important. I think the nuts and bolts are there regardless of style.

Johno

[bushido_man96]

I dont think karate styles are that important. I think the nuts and bolts are there regardless of style.

This may be the case, but you have to have an instructor who can show you how the nuts and bolts come together. It may be there, but if you don't have someone to show you the path, you're stuck looking on your own.