Do you ever feel like *you* are *that* kind of student?

[ninjanurse]

I've arrived a little early to some classes where he were teaching the teenagers and for some reason he is quite opposite in his methods in that way. Teenagers he doesnt take *ANY* crap from... but adults for some reason he will often let slide a little bit more. I notice even in our class (age 16 or 17 and above) he will "demand" more repect from the older teens than he will from say a 45 year old man.

I doubt he is "demanding" a different level of respect from the different age groups. There are subtleties of teaching that require a different approach and level of expectation for each type of learner based on their cognitive and emotional development. Some students may see this as you do and are not expected to understand the process until they "mature" (so to speak). Being argumentative is not respectful by any means but can be tolerated temporarily as the teacher guides the student to discovering where their knowledge ends and the teachers begins. Those that fail to come to this conclusion will eventually be weeded out, either by their own egos or dismissal from the dojo. Your journey has just begun so give it some time....

[DisgruntledGirl]

I doubt he is "demanding" a different level of respect from the different age groups. There are subtleties of teaching that require a different approach and level of expectation for each type of learner based on their cognitive and emotional development. Some students may see this as you do and are not expected to understand the process until they "mature" (so to speak). Being argumentative is not respectful by any means but can be tolerated temporarily as the teacher guides the student to discovering where their knowledge ends and the teachers begins. Those that fail to come to this conclusion will eventually be weeded out, either by their own egos or dismissal from the dojo. Your journey has just begun so give it some time....

I actually agree with your whole assessment of the situation.

I am a girl who never really got involved in any kind of sports as a child due to a few different physical problems/lazyness (diagnosed with diabetes at 3, appendectomy at 13, spinal surgery at 16, dislocated shoulder 2 weeks after the spinal surgery, kidney stone at 21 (though I guess thats not really a big deal) and dislocated the other shoulder at 23) so I tended to stay away from any kind of organised sports and therefore I am slowly understanding the idea of being "coached" (wrong word but I think you get my point) now because its really not something Ive ever experienced befor now. Though I believe MA demands a little more "discipline" and etiquette along the lines of respect than most other sports.

I'm getting there... I'm just having a rocky start

[ps1]

If you know you're being argumentative, why do you continue? It's one thing to ask a question, that's only human. It's another to argue. If something conflicts with what you thought, just ask privately at the end of class. It's a little more respectful that way and you won't feel embarassed.

ummm (not to be argumentative but) thats pretty much what I said in my conclusion to my post wasnt it?

I suppose so

I guess I was just curious as to wether your aware of being argumentative at the time of doing it? Or does it hit you a minute or two later?

To answer your actual question. I was not one of those students. Probably because I started training at such a young age (6) and found my instructor to be a bit intimidating. However, I do find that adults who begin training do tend to be much more likely to question things often. I think it's good. It challenges me when I teach. It forces me to know what I'm talking about. It doesn't bother me when someone thinks something I teach doesn't work. Because I can show them it does. I would venture to guess, based on your post, that your instructor is glad to have you and your "argumentative" ways in the class!

[marie curie]

Oh I'm always aware

[DisgruntledGirl]

I guess I was just curious as to wether your aware of being argumentative at the time of doing it? Or does it hit you a minute or two later? "

Oh I see. Yes its more of a second or two after it leaves my lips and especially after I see the senseis facial expression where I realise that oops maybe I should have, at the very least, worded it differently... if not, not said it at all.... and times like now were I look back and analyze it a bit more, which lead to the initial post.

To answer your actual question. I was not one of those students. Probably because I started training at such a young age (6) and found my instructor to be a bit intimidating.

Ah yes. I do believe that to be a big difference between "children" students and those that have "grown up" in the MAs" and adult students that have just started. Children will find most teachers of anything a tad intimidating... I know I did (was a very shy child) especially Teachers who they know can beat them up but as adults we tend to be less frightend... and in the end know that "hey, if we dont like being talked to or treated a certain way, we can always just quit!" so we go into it with a slightly different attitude... even if unitentionally so. Which is not to say that I have had any problem with the way I have been talked to or treated.

I would venture to guess, based on your post, that your instructor is glad to have you and your "argumentative" ways in the class!

I hope so anyway.

[DisgruntledGirl]

Oh I'm always aware

Bwahahah

[obiwansbane]

heh your classes are alot more broken up than ours... ours go 5-10, 10-14, 15+ so by kids and adults i meant 5-14 for kids and 15+ for adults... our instructor especially doesnt take any back talking from high teens

its most prudent in self defence to NEVER say that you dont think a technique will work...

[bushido_man96]

its most prudent in self defence to NEVER say that you dont think a technique will work...

This can lead to unfortunate circumstances. When an instructor tells you that you should do so-and-so if the opponent does so-and-so, and that is the way you train it, with no questions asked, and then, when the time comes, it doesn't work for you, what happened? Was it because you didn't do it right? Or was it because what works so well for one person doesn't work the same for another?

As an instructor, it is important to be able to work with variations of things with the students, in order for them to find out what works for their particular body type and ability/skill level.

Therefore, it is important for students to ask questions now and again, and they should feel comfortable doing so. Even if it comes out in an arguementative tone (which, hopefully, wouldn't happen often) it should still be addressed.

I know that students can get frustrated at times; I get that way, too. It is all part of the learning process. However, don't forget that their is more than one process to learning.

[DisgruntledGirl]

When an instructor tells you that you should do so-and-so if the opponent does so-and-so, and that is the way you train it, with no questions asked, and then, when the time comes, it doesn't work for you, what happened? Was it because you didn't do it right? Or was it because what works so well for one person doesn't work the same for another?

Oh... sooooo true. A few classes back we were working on getting out of a choke hold and there were two other white belts that were working with me (guys) who were taking turns "choking" me... well of course being human, they didnt want to hurt me so they never got me too hard... Sensei of course told them to do it "almost" for real so that I got a feel for how I might truely react in such a case... while they did go slightly harder.. not near hard enough.

So, sensei decided to show them what he meant... on me of course. When he grabbed hold of my neck it scared the absolute bejeezus out of me the first time and I barely even tried to do what I was supposed to... second time I really tried... and third and fourth... as it turns out, I am either just not strong enough in my arms to get out of such a hold with the move he wanted me to... or I get a little too freaked out to do that particular move (while running out of air anyway).

I did try to ask what I should do about it and I think he missunderstood me or something and he just told me different ways to strengthen my arms instead of telling me an alternative move, but I just let that one go. Which lead me to believe that I'd probably be a lot better off just kicking the "attacker" in the groin instead (though I chose not to do this to the sensei of course )

[DisgruntledGirl]

heh your classes are alot more broken up than ours... ours go 5-10, 10-14, 15+ so by kids and adults i meant 5-14 for kids and 15+ for adults... our instructor especially doesnt take any back talking from high teens

I'm not sure of the exact break up of classes but Im pretty sure there are at least four age brackets with the last two being 12-16 and 16 and over