Judo and BJJ

[ps1]

I agree with most everything that's been said. However, I think it was Kano's genius of removing techniques that are "too dangerous" to practice at full go from the system that led to the greatness of BJJ now. That ability to train at 100% full go is what allowed the system to become so effective.

I agree that it's probably just jealousy on the part of the judoka that leads to their comments. They're upset that Judo doesn't get the props for spawning BJJ. But, as mentioned, it didn't exactly happen that way. The judo regimin was only a part of what Maeda taught. Further, Helio changed tons of stuff when he got involved in the art.

In the end, Judo was a spring board, but Helio was the vault that created BJJ!

[NightOwl]

I think that judo and BJJ are great for different things- certainly BJJ contains anything you need to know about newaza and a whole lot more, but Judo has nice throws that (I at least) would prefer to use in a self defense situation (initially). Judo's weakness is its rules and pin to win sparring that doesn't take into account that fights don't end when you got the guy on the ground...although I suppose that unless you are fighting a BJJer, you definitely have a dominate position. Really I look at the grappling styles as such:

Greco-Roman:

Strengths-

Clinches and take downs

Conditioning (these guys are tough)

Some good holds

Weaknesses:

Ground game

No teaching of the majority of locks

No chokes

A wrestler on his back is kind of like a turtle...not good

Pins end match

----

Judo

Strengths:

Judo is the quintessential expert on throws (which sometimes are almost as much of an attack as they are of a take down)

A nice array of locks and chokes

A more expanded ground game

Weaknesses:

Pinning, one throw, etc, type wins that shorten a match beyond its potential full conclusion

Heavy Gi usage

Ground game is constrained by rules

------

BJJ

Strengths:

Specialization= Efficiency...best ground game period

Extensive knowledge of locks and chokes, perhaps even the best

Uses what seem like bad positions (like your back) and turns it into a weapon

Most people are not comfortable fighting on the ground

Weaknesses:

No stand up (which is where you have to start out anyways)

Sometimes you set yourself up for a good ground and pound

Outside of the gym, the ground tends not to be soft and squishy

[NightOwl]

I agree with most everything that's been said. However, I think it was Kano's genius of removing techniques that are "too dangerous" to practice at full go from the system that led to the greatness of BJJ now. That ability to train at 100% full go is what allowed the system to become so effective.

I agree that it's probably just jealousy on the part of the judoka that leads to their comments. They're upset that Judo doesn't get the props for spawning BJJ. But, as mentioned, it didn't exactly happen that way. The judo regimin was only a part of what Maeda taught. Further, Helio changed tons of stuff when he got involved in the art.

In the end, Judo was a spring board, but Helio was the vault that created BJJ!

Aye, agreed. Bjj isn't just a carbon copy of Judo or JJJ- it honed and introduced so many techniques in a particular range (the ground), that it really is its own unique art.

[bushido_man96]

Good posts, NightOwl. I think you hit the breakdowns pretty well on the three styles of grappling that you mentioned.

One thing that I would add to this:

Bjj isn't just a carbon copy of Judo or JJJ- it honed and introduced so many techniques in a particular range (the ground), that it really is its own unique art.

.... I would say that they realized the advantages of Judo and JuiJitsus' other techniques, and decided to capitalize on what the others had "forgotten," so to speak.