Is budo missing in the MMA?

[gzk]

Do you think that the tenents of budo, like integrity, respect, and sportsmanship are beginning to disappear from the MMA competitions that we see? Do you think that they are beginning to look more and more like WWE events, with trash-talking and all that goes with it?

There is no doubt that the fights are entertaining, but does it come to a point where we can do with the just the fighting, and not the hyping? What does everyone think?

No, I don't think so. There are trash talkers, sure, but there's plenty of the qualities you mention. See GSP, Royce, Randy, Anderson Silva, etc.

These that you mention do come to mind. I have always liked Courture, and I always felt that he was a stand-up guy. The others, as well. But, do you think that some of today's upcoming fighters are beginning to go the route of the WWE type of show? I really hope not. I think that if UFC and Pride can continue to put out quality fighters, then they can avoid going the route of all the pomp.

Some are definitely going for a WWE type image. Tito Ortiz comes to mind, although he does appear capable of humility and certainly aims to get the job done in the octagon. I would like to see less "grudge" matchups that are created out of trash-talking. The whole Tito/Ken Shamrock saga was unedifying to both, Tito coming off as a brash punk and Ken as an old man who should have known better than to allow the feud to develop, firstly, and retired with his dignity intact, secondly. I haven't seen The Ultimate Fighter but perhaps they need to be trained by more respectful fighters and discouraged to show disrespect to their opponents.

On the other hand, everyone likes to see a punk get beat down.

I think perhaps some of it comes from an overreaction against the regimented, mystical Orientophile manner in which martial arts have often been taught in decades in our recent past. Perhaps many have gotten away with peddling useless martial art with all form and no function in the past and they should be called on it, but don't throw the baby out with the bathwater - respect is an essential part of good, safe martial arts training, whether traditional or not, whether Oriental or not.

[bushido_man96]

Perhaps MMA is a little more bujutsu and a little less budo?

Ding ding ding!!!! I think you got it right. MMA is just about fighting to win. There are alot of those guys who do it for the money and don't care about anything else. So yes! Budo/chivalry is missing in MMA as a whole. There are some good guys who add it in, but it's not a requirement of the sport.

I agree that it is more fighting, and less of the budo. However, it is mostly sport, as well (thus, sportsmanship). I don't think that the MMA guys do quite as much jawing as pro wrestlers do, which is good. I just don't want to see it head that way.

I don't say this because I feel that budo should be taught as part of the MMA style. I just don't want to see it because I would rather everyone did their talking in the ring. I think that the quality of the productions would go down if it became more like the WWE.

Even if they do talk trash before the fight, I would be willing to bet that most of them are fairly nice people...they just play the hype game for the fans.

[lordtariel]

All the trash talk is annoying and I think it is an attempt (at least within the UFC) to mimic "wrasslin.'" I noticed this over the weekend while watching UFC 70.

And unfortunately, that's image MMA is getting because if it.

[straightblast]

I think budo has nothing to do with MMA. It is a sporting event like boxing, soccer, basketball etc. There has been and always will be trash talking in sports as well as rivalrys.

Some people do hate each other in MMA but the same can be said of all sports. As far as sportsmanship, it is everywhere, most fighters respect each other, even after the events they hug.

I see the trash talking as a way to try and get yourself pumped up and put a little doubt in your opponent, a tiny advantage will help. Most of it is just hype.

Your main goal is to knock out or submit your opponent.

[bushido_man96]

Some people do hate each other in MMA but the same can be said of all sports. As far as sportsmanship, it is everywhere, most fighters respect each other, even after the events they hug.

I agree, and that is just the way it is in life in general. I know that the Chiefs/Raiders games wouldn't mean half as much if the rivalry wasn't what it is today.

The rivalrys are a good thing for the sport. It keeps fans interested, which is what helps to drive the sport. Good post, straightblast.

[marie curie]

I actually think that there is a great deal of integrity, respect, and sportsmanship shown in MMA, specifically the UFC.

Maybe the difference is that I'm comparing this to other sports instead of martial arts, but it is a rare occation (yes, it's happend, but it's so rare that when it does happend a big deal has been made) that the players disrespect the officiants by challanging and complaining about the refereeing. This, of course, is a very common practice- not only for sportsman but for coaches as well- in most other sports. I can't remember one time that a fighter's coach has come out yelling at the ref, but if it's happened, it's definately not common. Recently I saw two opposing fighters, after the fight either talking very closely or praying together. No animosity. They played the game. They respected each other. ... I'll edit this when I can think of their names.

Yes there is some trash talking, but generally it's just for the clips right before the fights and that is the time that the fighters are trying to get into a mental space that they want to beat the crap out of one another, so it's understandable. The real trash-talking that is done mostly cira Tito is also understandable. In any sport or competition, there are bound to be a few people who just don't play well with others. T. Owens comes to mind, and the media picks on him for it, and people judge him and the handful of others who trash talk- not the entire sport.

Ultimate Fighter, however, is a different story. These are not world champions, these are kids (mostly 20-something bacchelors) who have proven themselves to a point, were chosen based on skill as well as personality, and placed in a compeditive environment on a reality show. If you judge this show compared to other reality shows, I think that it won't come up to be so rediculous.

Anyway, I just see a lot of good sportsmanship between the athelets who obviously respect each other. I see respect for the officals, and defiantly respect for the trainers/coaches/teachers.

Just my 2 cents

****Edit***

I believe that it's Diaz v Freitas

Edited April 30, 2007 by marie curie

[bushido_man96]

I don't get to watch much of The Ultimate Fighter series, so I don't keep up on all that goes on there. Most of the fights that I have seen usually have good sportsmanship involved. I can remember one of the earlier UFCs where Tank Abbot demonstrated some not-so-good sportsmanship, but that was a long time ago.

[glockmeister]

I think that it is indeed going down the WWF path and it is disheartening. I really don't like to hear a lot of trash talk between two competitors. These are supposed to be martial artists and respect and humility should have it's place. Sure, i enjoy watching the fights, but I don't wanna hear them calling each other "punks" etc. It just gives the anti-UFC crowd more ammo.

[jaymac]

I really have mixed feeling about what MMA should be called or represent. I enjoy watching Ultimate Fighter, and I enjoy watching the matches. Some of these guys trained for years in one or more types of Martial Arts, boxing, and/or wrestling. Here is where I think it begins to change: They have schools opening now where you just go to learn to become a Mixed Martial Artist, so these new students arent even spending quality time in one or more styles, but many combined. Never learning the why's or how's behind a style. These new students aren't learning the respect or discipline one learns in a quality martial art school. Their goal is to learn how to fight, win matches, and not have respect for the person you just beat to the ground. But this is where I see Martial Arts heading. There are less and less traditional schools out there, and more competition type schools emerging.

[bushido_man96]

I don't view the MMA gyms as a threat to the Martial Arts. If anything, they are a boon to the Martial Arts. MMA gyms aren't that much different than Boxing gyms, Thai boxing gyms, or high school and NCAA wrestling schools.

Even though they aren't spending time in a "traditional" style, they will still learn things like discipline. That training will discipline anyone, I think. Aside from the respect thing, I think that most of the people in the world are respectful, for the most part. You can always find someone that isn't respectful, and they may feel this way because of their ability, or any other of numerous factors. You can even find people like this in "traditional" Martial Arts.