Would you label MMA its own martial art?

[nine_weapons]

so true(to topic starter) MMA is its own martial art, hands down..

tkd + bjj

mantis + catch

muay thai + sambo

shotokan + greco roman

if ALL of these are considered MMA, how is it its own style?? there is no standard for it.

[nine_weapons]

I think that it is it's own martial art. Yes, it is a sport with it's own set of rules, but so is Olympic style TKD, and we generally consider that an art. It does take from a bunch of others, but -as stated above- so do other arts (ie. BJJ came from Judo and was built upon).

sure, but tkd is standardized to some extent. I can't train in judo and say I do TKD. I can't train karate and say I do TKD. as long as it is the same style of tkd, you will learn the same forms for the most part, no? the fact that mma is a sport has nothing to do with it also being its own martial art. The key factor is lack of standardization.

[bushido_man96]

sure, but tkd is standardized to some extent. I can't train in judo and say I do TKD. I can't train karate and say I do TKD. as long as it is the same style of tkd, you will learn the same forms for the most part, no? the fact that mma is a sport has nothing to do with it also being its own martial art. The key factor is lack of standardization.

Hundreds of years ago, there was no standardization, either. I think that people get caught up in techniques and technique names, and that is where this stems from. MMA, essentially, is Pankration re-incarnated from its original form of the ancient Hellenic games. Sure, there have been some modifications/improvements, but it is very much similar.

Perahps there will come a day when we can just say: "I am a Martial Artist."

[nine_weapons]

there had to have been standardization to some extent - that's why there are hundreds of kung fu styles. heck, there are what, 4 major styles of taiji alone. If it was standardized, there would only be one style. but since there were deviations, other styles came about.

[bushido_man96]

I think that most of the deviations came from being in different areas, and not having the same opportunity to share and learn like is available today. It was more a circumstantial thing than a forced thing, I think.

[G95champ]

Simple

No belt, No Test, No ranking system, No Martial Art.

Just a combo of others.

[mantis.style]

Not sure about that. Traditionally, the Chinese styles do not have belts, tests or rankings. Even now, After what is coming up to 14 years, I do not have a belt, a rank and have never tested.

[G95champ]

Kung Fu does not have differant color sashes for higher ranks?

You do have a ranking system in that there are some moves taught beofre others Im sure.

In MMA does it really matter if you learn to kick, punch, sprawl, gurad or mount first?

[mantis.style]

Some modern schools have adopted a sort of grading, usually using the forms as a reference, which is more or less how your progress was traditionally marked. The old chinese school system has no rank as such, instead everyone is referenced by a family title depending on your entry to the school and how other people are "related" to you via your SiFu.

Generally, speaking the forms are organised to be taught in a successive way and do not actually have a rank attached to them. "seniority" in a school is determined by your age in the school which isn't always an indicator of how good you are. By the same token, knowing more doesn't always mean you are the better fighter either.

Admittedly, I was slightly shy with the total truth. I've recently started training at a club where they do have an adopted ranking system. In the one that I have trained with continuously the longest, they didn't.

[nine_weapons]

Simple

No belt, No Test, No ranking system, No Martial Art.

Just a combo of others.

not true. kung fu initially did not use belt ranks. Many schools still do not. that was something that some schools adopted from the japanese and began to integrate. And what about other styles? neither wrestling nor muay thai have belt ranks either...