Would you label MMA its own martial art?

[Ottman]

The real discussion should perhaps revolve around definitions of martial art, martial sport, fighting style, martial artists versus martial athletes, and so on. Ultimately, IMO, when someone says they're an MMA guy or their style is MMA, it puts a certain understanding in our minds about what martial art they practice or train - the newest one.

So true baron. as you can see from my styles I've trained in multiple MA's as most people on this forum have, but I wouldn't call myself an MMA guy, because I don't compete under MMA rules. Even though I actually take a class that is referred to as MMA, the only reason for that is because my BJJ teacher quit teaching, and this is the only school I could find that trained in BJJ in my area. They just happened to call the class MMA, because they also train in Muay Thai, focus on MMA competition training, and wear the MMA competition gear. The school also teaches TKD classes, Ninjitsu, Tai Chi, and a few other classes, but these are NOT included in the MMA class if you only sign up for MMA.

And why not!!?? Because MMA has taken on a different meaning than just mixing martial arts. People did that for centuries before the term 'MMA' originated.

[bushido_man96]

The real discussion should perhaps revolve around definitions of martial art, martial sport, fighting style, martial artists versus martial athletes, and so on. Ultimately, IMO, when someone says they're an MMA guy or their style is MMA, it puts a certain understanding in our minds about what martial art they practice or train - the newest one.

I think that you make a very good point here, Baron. I actually discuss this in my article, and I think it is part of the confusion in the martial arts. Many people think that competition doesn't make it a martial art, like boxing, MMA, Thai boxing, etc. However, I feel the opposite. I think that they are styles of fighting, or martial arts, in themselves. I really think that the street fighter, like Tank Abbot, could be considered an MAist as well.

[baronbvp]

Thanks, men. Good discussion.

[boyo1991]

no, its mixed martial arts, not one style...

[baronbvp]

But so is JKD.

[bushido_man96]

But so is JKD.

The Martial Arts are an interesting paradigm. When they were originally trained for war, you had several different aspects; armed, and unarmed. You were taught with your weapon against weapons, and then unarmed against weapons. Within the different drills, you would get close and kill or disarm, or throw them to the ground, and dispatch them.

Then, hand to hand combat changes. War, as I like to say, has lost its "intimacy." Now, in a war, you shoot someone from across a field. You don't look into their eyes as they expire. When it was hand weapons, such as swords and spears, it was much more intimate.

Now that war is not as intimate, the styles of fighting have changed. Since those ranges of combat started to fall by the wayside, certain places began to focus on certain aspects; i.e., striking, or grappling, or clinching and throwing, etc.

So now, we come to our broken up "styles." Now, with MMA, we are moving back towards intergration.

Kind of interesting, isn't it?

[baronbvp]

Very much so, and a great little bit of posting right there. You are a very knowledgeable man.

[bushido_man96]

Thanks, Baron. Every now and then, the words come together.

[dreambig73]

I don't feel it is really it's own MA. Case in point: the last UFC when they had Mercer vs. Kimbo. Neither of them are martial artists. Mercer is a former boxer and Kimbo is a street fighting thug who just happened to have a cult following and managed to get Bas Rutten to train him on the ground. I have to believe that a good street fighter could get in there an hold their own under UFC rules. Remember Tank Abbott. Hated MA and did pretty well when UFC was new. I enjoy watching it, but it lacks the style and tradition that makes martial arts what they are: ARTS.

[gzk]

I don't feel it is really it's own MA. Case in point: the last UFC when they had Mercer vs. Kimbo.

No, that was Cage Fury. A "minor leage" competition.

Neither of them are martial artists. Mercer is a former boxer and Kimbo is a street fighting thug who just happened to have a cult following and managed to get Bas Rutten to train him on the ground.

What is boxing, if not a martial art?

What was Bas Rutten training Kimbo in, if not martial arts?

I have to believe that a good street fighter could get in there an hold their own under UFC rules. Remember Tank Abbott. Hated MA and did pretty well when UFC was new.

With good training, yes, it would be possible. Yet, it doesn't seem to be happening - who in the UFC now (or in the last 7 years or so) would you consider a "street fighter"?

As for Tank Abbot, yes he did well when UFC was new, though he never won the tournament or any weight division belts. His record now is 9-13. And to achieve that, he trained in boxing for over 10 years and wrestled at high school and college.

I enjoy watching it, but it lacks the style and tradition that makes martial arts what they are: ARTS.

Well style is a matter of taste of course, personally, I like watching guys who can transition smoothly from one phase of a fight to the other - standup striking to clinch to ground and back again - and that's what good MMA is all about.

As for tradition, well, how about Pankration, from ancient Greece? Brazilian Vale Tudo is from the 1920s. I would think that would make MMA fairly traditional.

Now, having said all that, while I do consider MMA to be martial arts, I don't consider it a martial art. Someone may specify their own MMA system, such as Pat Miletich's MFS, that, I would consider a martial art.