Would you label MMA its own martial art?

[shinbushi]

Pankration being the first mma can be argued but what I would say is that I don't think any school teaches true Pankration. Arvantis did his best to reconstruct it and other schools teach more of a homiglation of catch as can catch wrestling, submission wrestling, bjj, "muay thai", kickboxing, boxing, wrestling all in the mix. In truth, Karl Gotch(rip) had a lot to do with Japanese pancrase's roots.

[nine_weapons]

arvantis actually has his own kickboxing system called mu tau.

As for the topic, I don't consider mma it's own style. MMA is a format - the format consists of striking and grappling, period. doesn't matter if it's tkd and judo or longfist and bjj. striking and grappling. As such, it is way too broad to be considered a system of its own.

[bushido_man96]

Pankration being the first mma can be argued but what I would say is that I don't think any school teaches true Pankration. Arvantis did his best to reconstruct it and other schools teach more of a homiglation of catch as can catch wrestling, submission wrestling, bjj, "muay thai", kickboxing, boxing, wrestling all in the mix. In truth, Karl Gotch(rip) had a lot to do with Japanese pancrase's roots.

I agree, true Pankration won't be seen, because of the nature of the sport. Very dangerous, and no rules, I believe. However, it was the predecessor.

[shinbushi]

arvantis actually has his own kickboxing system called mu tau.

As for the topic, I don't consider mma it's own style. MMA is a format - the format consists of striking and grappling, period. doesn't matter if it's tkd and judo or longfist and bjj. striking and grappling. As such, it is way too broad to be considered a system of its own.

It's his style of pankration that he founded in 1968 and mu tau is a Greek acronym meaning martial truth. It is not a style of kickboxing but Arvantis has trained in Savate and Muay Thai. I don't know how you came to the conclusion that it was a style of kickboxing when Arvantis is known as "the father of Pankration". Is it because it's spealled mu tau vs. muay thai? they're not pronounced the same, oh well.

[nine_weapons]

It's his style of pankration that he founded in 1968 and mu tau is a Greek acronym meaning martial truth. It is not a style of kickboxing but Arvantis has trained in Savate and Muay Thai. I don't know how you came to the conclusion that it was a style of kickboxing when Arvantis is known as "the father of Pankration". Is it because it's spealled mu tau vs. muay thai? they're not pronounced the same, oh well.

because I have an article somewhere that says it. the article also calls him him the father of modern pankration. It then goes on to say that mu tau is what he teaches based on his muay thai, savate and grappling. Oh well.

[shinbushi]

Yeah, it's based on his savate, muay thai, combat judo, and his own principles but he never called it "kickboxing"...I've read every black belt article he's done, especially since they've reprinted the one he did in '73 or whenever it was. Thank god I have a photographic memory, anyhoo, he never called it kickboxing. Muay Thai is not kickboxing, neither. I've never heard a savateur call what they do kickboxing, too.

[nine_weapons]

Yeah, it's based on his savate, muay thai, combat judo, and his own principles but he never called it "kickboxing"...I've read every black belt article he's done, especially since they've reprinted the one he did in '73 or whenever it was. Thank god I have a photographic memory, anyhoo, he never called it kickboxing. Muay Thai is not kickboxing, neither. I've never heard a savateur call what they do kickboxing, too.

I have never heard savate termed as kickboxing. muay thai, thai boxing, thai kickboxing and kickboxing are all used interchangeably in the US. Yeah, (american) kickboxing and muay thai are two very different entities, but I don't really hear or see anyone complaining about using the same name for both. It used to irk me, but I got over it.

[YoungMan]

Americans really aren't into the finer details about what separates one style from another. To us, it's all karate, or kung fu, or kickboxing. How many years did we lump all Japanese styles into "karate", all Chinese styles into "kung fu"? To us, all fighting in a ring is "kickboxing".

[bushido_man96]

Americans really aren't into the finer details about what separates one style from another. To us, it's all karate, or kung fu, or kickboxing. How many years did we lump all Japanese styles into "karate", all Chinese styles into "kung fu"? To us, all fighting in a ring is "kickboxing".

I kind of agree. I would say that Muay Thai, Western Kickboxing, and Savate are all types of Kickboxing in general.

[boyo1991]

so true(to topic starter) MMA is its own martial art, hands down..