Using Kata in a Fight - Keep It Simple

[Shorin Ryuu]

I am a traditional martial artist and I believe strongly that training kata can lead directly to increased fighting skill. However, in order for this to happen, you must have kata that are worth doing, you must fight the same way you do kata, and you must have a teacher who knows the meaning behind the kata. One easy way to judge a kata's effectiveness is observing how simple both the explanation and the movement is. Advanced karate isn't a matter of advanced techniques, it is a matter of how advanced you can perform the basics.

Chibana Sensei always used to say that if you had to change the movement of your kata to match your meaning, then your meaning is wrong. (For background, "meaning" or "imi" was the word most commonly used to describe what a movement meant in a kata. The word bunkai is a relatively newer phenomenon.) In other words, how you move in the kata is how you move in a fight. There is no point in continuous repetition of a move that you are going to do completely differently in a fight. There is the obvious slight modification due to your opponent's size, etc., but the core movement is the same. The core process of what you do and how your body does it is the same.

Chibana Sensei taught three different levels of technique within the kata, pretty much intermediate, high school, and advanced. The thing is, even the "advanced" techniques weren't mystical pressure point strikes or 3-step grappling manuevers. The advanced part usually meant the technique was just more vicious and permanently injurious/fatal than the "basic" techniques. What people fail to ultimately realize is that there are no advanced techniques, only advanced execution of basics. A lot of times, that block is just a block, that punch is just a punch. What made them worthwhile to practice was that the kata taught you exactly the proper posture, stance, movement, and timing necessary to give you a punch that would knock someone out cold or a block that would literally floor your opponent.

The sad part is, most people can't punch or block with enough effectiveness to end a confrontation with a single technique. It has got to the point where even the idea itself is considered ridiculous. Most people give up on the idea entirely. Therefore, they have to invent new meanings for moves in the kata, since their attachment to kata remains, even if they can't fight effectively using it. Currently, there is an intense interest in grappling, so you see all these hidden grappling techniques taught, some of them bordering on absurdity in their complexity. I'm fairly sure the Pinan kata weren't formulated to end up with an armbar on the ground. But you will find many enlightened kata analysts who can modify the technique in a kata so it bears a passing resemblance to the movement, but is something entirely different altogether. Again, if you're not going to train the same execution as you would use in a fight, you're doing something wrong.

There is grappling in karate, don't get me wrong. We have a fair number of throws, a few joint locks, and the odd choke every now and then. But usually a "super secret hidden technique" is more often a simple grab to the ear with one hand, the throat in the other, and a turn which facilitates the throw. Very simple and effective, yet often overlooked because the meaning couldn't possibly be that basic. Like it or not, the mainstay of karate is striking. Grappling is just a bonus used upon convenience or necessity.

Again, because there is the lack of ability to generate pure destructive power from very simple techniques, people insert extra things into the kata, both analytically and physically as they alter the movements or how they do them. At this stage, the kata lost connection with their roots and anyone attempting to keep the kata simple would only have weak basics. It is a sadly vicious cycle and not one that anyone can mend other than having the fortune to train with those who truly learned the basic methodologies of those who have passed down the kata with only minimal individual modification.

If one reads between the lines, you can guess how much I feel even the majority of traditional karate meets my above criteria. I have my doubts as to how many people are afforded even the opportunity to learn good kata under an instructor who can teach what needs to be taught. However, there is no doubt in my mind that kata is an effective training tool for fighting.

Don't know who this Chibana Sensei is? Check out my best friend's (and inactive board member's) site: http://chibanaproject.blogspot.com/

[bushido_man96]

Nice post, Shorin Ryuu. I like some of your viewpoints. There is just one that I don't agree with....the One Strike, One Kill point.

I just feel that this is a concept, more than an actual meaning, and that actually debilitating someone to the point of not continuing with just one technique will not happen that often. I think that there are reasonable exceptions, such as striking the throat, or the eyes, or taking the knee out. However, I think that many people assume that this concept can go for any technique.

As I said, I think that it is a good concept to train by. Train a technique as though you will take someone out with it...a maximum effort, so to speak. I am just not sure the reality of it is there.

[Shorin Ryuu]

Nice post, Shorin Ryuu. I like some of your viewpoints. There is just one that I don't agree with....the One Strike, One Kill point.

I just feel that this is a concept, more than an actual meaning, and that actually debilitating someone to the point of not continuing with just one technique will not happen that often. I think that there are reasonable exceptions, such as striking the throat, or the eyes, or taking the knee out. However, I think that many people assume that this concept can go for any technique.

As I said, I think that it is a good concept to train by. Train a technique as though you will take someone out with it...a maximum effort, so to speak. I am just not sure the reality of it is there.

At the risk of sounding like a coach speaking to his team down ten points during halftime, "not with that attitude!" Obviously, not even admitting the possibility cuts out all likelihood of achieving that kind of power.

I used to think it was only a philosophical idea and that it was absurd to think it would work in a fight. It wasn't until someone knocked some sense into me (literally) and I met an instructor who can consistently strike, block, and kick with this kind of power and who has taught others to do the same that I came to believe in it. I don't expect to convince anyone with just my words here. Going back to my own example, words did nothing to convince me, but feeling that kind of power worked quite well. It was enough to make me move out to Hawaii just to train, and I don't regret a single thing.

[bushido_man96]

Well, I don't say that it can't happen, I just don't rely on it to happen. I suppose if you can develop that much power, it can work. However, I know of some experienced fighters, and I just don't know how much it actually happens like that.

[Fish]

I agree with you when you say some people's analysis of kata is too complex to be realistic. I thought the idea was to incorporate basic movements into muscle memory so that the response to an attack would be instantaneous. If you have to think about it before doing it, then it's going to be too late. So it makes sense that it should be as straightforward as possible.

I've always thought it odd when people analyse the Pinan/ Heian Kata in these complex ways, because I understand that they were first compiled to introduce children to kata - so it's not surprising that they are made up of comparatively simple movements. I think there is a tendency to overlook the obvious (e.g. a straightforward strike to the eyes, throat, groin etc), because we can't believe it's that simple, and because training for sport conditions us to avoid striking these vulnerable places.

As for the one strike point - I thought the idea was one of total commitment to each stroke. The aim being to finish the fight with one blow, but the reality presumably depending on the circumstances at the time of the fight and the nature of the opponent. A committed strike to a vulnerable part of the body has the potential to cause severe injury or disability. But I have to say, I doubt whether I'd be (mentally) able to deliberately inflict such injury on an opponent in a real fight: I'm sure I would hold back.

[Shorin Ryuu]

I understand the differences in mentality here, especially since I used to share the same view as all of you. But just to further clarify my position and to perhaps make it sound even less realistic to some of you, Chibana Sensei's karate was about the power. He was able to floor someone with a single block if they decided to strike. He was able to floor someone with a single punch or kick if he moved in. It wasn't a matter of hitting certain vulnerable areas, it was a matter of truly generating that much power. Yes, hitting vulnerable areas is a plus, but Chibana Sensei's karate does not rely on it. It is those mechanics that teach the generation of power that compel me to study kata.

[cross]

Thats some very interesting information. The only problem i have with the "one hit, one kill" thing is how does it apply to the general public in terms of applicable self defence?

Its great that Chibana could do it, im guessing Shorin Ryuu can do it also. But how does that help everyone else? If your mum asked you to teach her self defence would you say "ok lets go work on blocking really hard and striking really hard."? Changes are her power will only reach a certain point. Will that be enough to stop someone intent on attacking her? Maybe, but there are alternative ways that may increase her chances futher.

Not to mention the time it takes to learn such a skill. People who want to learn self defence often do so for a reason, and usually need the skills now, not in 5 or 10 years.

Dont get me wrong, its a great concept and its good to hear some people can do it, but i dont think its the answer for the majority of people.

[Shorin Ryuu]

Thats some very interesting information. The only problem i have with the "one hit, one kill" thing is how does it apply to the general public in terms of applicable self defence?

Its great that Chibana could do it, im guessing Shorin Ryuu can do it also. But how does that help everyone else? If your mum asked you to teach her self defence would you say "ok lets go work on blocking really hard and striking really hard."? Changes are her power will only reach a certain point. Will that be enough to stop someone intent on attacking her? Maybe, but there are alternative ways that may increase her chances futher.

Not to mention the time it takes to learn such a skill. People who want to learn self defence often do so for a reason, and usually need the skills now, not in 5 or 10 years.

Dont get me wrong, its a great concept and its good to hear some people can do it, but i dont think its the answer for the majority of people.

Chibana Sensei's power, while legendary, is not something that is unattainable. He was certainly very strong, but he got that way doing things that anyone can do should they choose to do it.

It is often used as an argument against traditional martial arts that people suddenly need self defense "now" and not five or ten years in the future. I guarantee you that the vast majority of people learning martial arts are not under the sudden threat of being killed or beat up. Some are, perhaps, but the vast majority learn it because they like it or are just interested. Completely irregardless, learning how to punch with great power using Chibana Sensei's methodology doesn't take five or ten years. I know someone who picked it up in just a year and a half. In five or ten years, I suspect he will be far stronger than he is now, but it is completely incorrect to think no benefits are gained until some point far in the future when you suddenly become "good".

If my mother truly wanted to defend herself and if she was willing to put in the work, I would train her using this methodology. Whether she or anyone else is willing to accept our methodology really is of no concern of mine. Many people cite the "no holds barred" mixed martial arts as the ultimate way to learn fighting, but you don't see too many soccer moms training as hard and as full-out as the average young male hotshot. I fail to see why Chibana Sensei's karate should suddenly have to be marketable to every kind of demographic. If people don't want to train this way, then there are many alternatives for them and I'm not going to bend my methodology for marketing purposes.

Chibana Sensei's fighting style is very masculine and warrior-like. It requires absolute commitment in execution and a fighting mentality. I don't care if the average Joe is uncomfortable doing this or not. The average Joe doesn't have the mindset to be truly successful in MMA or [insert martial arts style here] either.

Bottom line: This methodology is something anyone in the general public can learn should they choose to do so and isn't something that requires many years, though a lifetime can be spent mastering it, just like anything else. Whether or not they choose to do so or whether or not they have the fighting mentality to take the benefits to their maximum potential is of no concern to me, nor is it likely a concern to anyone else who is truly concerned with fighting ability.

[cross]

Thanks for the reply. I suppose the question is. If this skill is so easily attainable, why arnt we seeing more of it? Why arnt boxers and mma fighters training to knock their opponent over with a single block? Alot of money is at stake for these fighters so i wonder why they arent doing this?

[Fish]

This is interesting, but I'm not sure why you say hitting vulnerable areas is a plus rather than essential. I'm not talking about pressure points here. It seems to me common sense that, given a choice between a strike to a hard, well protected area of the body and a strike to a vulnerable area, you choose the latter.