A true black belt? or a fake?

[ModernKempo]

I would think he wears a black belt for the same reason anybody else does. If you earned it it's yours. A lot of people say rank doesn't matter, but I've never heard of any one refusing to take that black belt after the test, saying nah you keep it I really don't need it.

I am not saying I don't agree with you. I do like my belts. I won't lie about it. However, if you take them away, it doesn't take away my knowledge. Neither does donning one give one knowledge. If a black belt is earned, then it is usually rewarded to one by another. In his case, that hasn't happened. Whether that is the way it should be or not, I am not to say. I just wonder why he worries about it.

I agree It would be nice to know what is spinning around in that brain of his.

But, Just because you have recieved a black belt does not make it any more valid than giving it to yourself. In the dojo I used to train at there would be guys who would strut around in their BB and then when you see these guys spar you realize they couldn't punch and kick their way out of a wet paper bag. Why is their BB more valid than this guys. If it really needs to be givin by somone else maybe his mother bought it and gave it to him.

Please do not get me wrong I am not trying to start an argument, just honest, fun, debate.

[mmljpp]

i think he is just fine ranks mean nothing it is how hard you try but one question is he doing the techniques right

If rank means nothing, then why bother with giving yourself one?

well i personally would be just fine without one lol

[bushido_man96]

I agree It would be nice to know what is spinning around in that brain of his.

But, Just because you have recieved a black belt does not make it any more valid than giving it to yourself. In the dojo I used to train at there would be guys who would strut around in their BB and then when you see these guys spar you realize they couldn't punch and kick their way out of a wet paper bag. Why is their BB more valid than this guys. If it really needs to be givin by somone else maybe his mother bought it and gave it to him.

Please do not get me wrong I am not trying to start an argument, just honest, fun, debate.

Oh no, no offense taken. It is a good discussion.

I just kind of compare it to getting a college degree. Look at it as being a mechanic. Now, there are those mechanics who are ASE certified, and then there are the "shade tree" mechanics. Most shade tree mechanics won't falsely present themselves as being ASE certified if they are not. However, that doesn't mean that they don't know what they are doing, or are not capable of doing what the certified mechanic can do. It is just the fact that they have not gone through the procedures and tests to become certified. Its the same thing. I think that Tank Abbot is a great Martial Artist; however, I don't think that he is a black belt, nor do I think he considers himself such (and he probably doesn't care, either).

There is my pitch!

[ModernKempo]

I agree It would be nice to know what is spinning around in that brain of his.

But, Just because you have recieved a black belt does not make it any more valid than giving it to yourself. In the dojo I used to train at there would be guys who would strut around in their BB and then when you see these guys spar you realize they couldn't punch and kick their way out of a wet paper bag. Why is their BB more valid than this guys. If it really needs to be givin by somone else maybe his mother bought it and gave it to him.

Please do not get me wrong I am not trying to start an argument, just honest, fun, debate.

Oh no, no offense taken. It is a good discussion.

I just kind of compare it to getting a college degree. Look at it as being a mechanic. Now, there are those mechanics who are ASE certified, and then there are the "shade tree" mechanics. Most shade tree mechanics won't falsely present themselves as being ASE certified if they are not. However, that doesn't mean that they don't know what they are doing, or are not capable of doing what the certified mechanic can do. It is just the fact that they have not gone through the procedures and tests to become certified. Its the same thing. I think that Tank Abbot is a great Martial Artist; however, I don't think that he is a black belt, nor do I think he considers himself such (and he probably doesn't care, either).

There is my pitch!

Good pitch, Sold!

[pittbullJudoka]

There's alot of this story I find hard to believe. I mean anyone can grab some dvds from the net try to figure out the moves and retain only what they like. Then make a name up of you own style. I think around UFC 5 or so Kimo Leupold's training partner Jo Son did this naming it JoSon Do. I just have a hard time with this train of thought. I mean I thought of ordering myself a nice embroadered black belt for when I recieved my shodan and could not bring myself to do it because I felt like it was not the honorable thing to do, because I wasn't yet a black belt. But this is jut my 2 cents.

[ModernKempo]

What do you think of using dvds to learn an art and then do video testing and consultations?

[ShoriKid]

Ehh, not so sure on the video courses for martial arts training. Yes, you can use an instructional video to keep a skill fresh. I love my Matsubayashi Ryu videos as a kata reference. But learning strictly from video, I think would be problematic for the average individual. Without out that feed back from an instructor, or training partner, a lot of more subtle things will be missed, or take forever to figure out on your own. Now if you were getting occasional live feed back and a training partner now and then, they could function like octain boost for your training. Lifting your ability to the next level through a ready reference for home training in addition to class time.

On this "black belt" friend. I'm sorry, but some of it just doesn't seem to pass the smell test. Could he be a naturally talented fighter? Sure. Could he learn some things on his own? Sure, though, like the video training belief I hold above, not sure it would be much. Were there witnesses to the defeat of these blackbelts he took on? That, and what adult instructor lets a 16yr old goad them into a fight? A round of sparring if he's claiming prior training and wants to join the dojo, maybe. But a lot of those are just the instructor feeling someone out, not a fight, no matter what the would be black belt thinks.

I guess this cuts to the heart of the questions, what constitutes a black belt? Is it a certificate that says they are one? A piece of cloth or a file in some organization? Do they have to be able to teach well? Yes and no to all of these questions. I think, and I know that's not worth much to anyone past myself and those I train with, that a black belt must have the following. The ability to cleanly exicute the majority of technique within their style on a consistant basis. The ability to apply them under certain condition. An understanding of why the techniques work, even if they can't transmit that understanding to others(ie. teach well). The will to continue despite adversity, in it's many forms.

There's more to that than the typed word seems to convey. And there is a ton more than I can't seem to even list here. Intanglables that affect the quality of a fighter and a martial artist that I think you see in good black belts. The ability and impression they could leave you with when you didn't see any fancy uniform, but a guy working out in a teeshirt and gym shorts.

[bushido_man96]

What do you think of using dvds to learn an art and then do video testing and consultations?

I don't think that there is anything wrong with using DVDs and books as training materials. I do it all of the time. However, doing video testings, I am not so sure about. I think that they are more of a scam than anything.

[pittbullJudoka]

I find nothing wrong with using books or videos to educate one's self in another area of the martial arts. I constantly want to improve my submissions, I will just stuff off the net or from books, or from watching a fight but I have to actually figure out the setup and application " on my own ". And by "on my own " I mean with a training partner. This is the only way you have to know if the technique is working properly. You can only learn so much from a media source without live feed back

[Traymond]

the belt ranking system only originated to add some flare to the dull looking gi. It made people look forward to something in the terms, of reaping small rewards before you get to the big one, so it does not seem that you are waiting for nothing.

The black belt merely symbolizes someone who understands the basic of the martial arts principles set forth in his style, if he created his own mix or style, then yes he is a real black belt.

He most definatly would not be accepted into any oragnizations such as WTF, or ITF or anything like that, they might accept some of the forms he uses, if he does use the traditional forms set forth, by say Tae Kwon Do Chung Do Kwans, Baek, which is a third degree black belt Poomse I believe, than the ITF would recognize that Form but not the style he has created.

To me the belt holds your pants up. I have four belts I use now. A white one, a black one, a red one and a blue one. One for their respective colored Gi's. For my students I allow them to wear the belts from White to black, I dont have any black belt students yet, but when I do, the ranking system just repeats its self. Black and then back to white, but that shows that no matter what life is a continual circle.

So I think that your friend is a real black belt, even in the regards that he had to earn the money he made to get the black belt, as you look into the martial arts and you find Zen, just look into martial arts as small aspects such as that. He did have to earn his money to get the black belt, so no matter what he is the owner of a black belt regardless of who gave it to him. In his own right he deserves it. Black belt is nothing more than a modernized symbol through martial arts that acts as a name for where you are in your martial arts. In his own style he is a black belt, who are we to choose what he is?