A true black belt? or a fake?

[straightblast]

Bruce Lee may not have earned a black belt but he did have formal training in WC and trained with many black blets, most of his students were ranked in some martial art.

This so called BB sounds like he worked by himself for 3 years and from the sound of it put his BB on prior to teaching himself.

At first it is stated that there is no other school in the area but 3 years later BB's and instructors were all all over the place.

I myself do not have a BB nor will I but I do have 3 years of shotokan, 1 year kempo and less time in other arts and currenty working with my son who is enrolled in Doce Pares.

I find it rather easy to learn from DVD's, books and even observing my son's class, however you need training partners.

I would never give myself a BB or claim but that does not mean I can not teach self defense to others.

[ps1]

Bruce Lee may not have earned a black belt but he did have formal training in WC and trained with many black blets, most of his students were ranked in some martial art.

This so called BB sounds like he worked by himself for 3 years and from the sound of it put his BB on prior to teaching himself.

At first it is stated that there is no other school in the area but 3 years later BB's and instructors were all all over the place.

I myself do not have a BB nor will I but I do have 3 years of shotokan, 1 year kempo and less time in other arts and currenty working with my son who is enrolled in Doce Pares.

I find it rather easy to learn from DVD's, books and even observing my son's class, however you need training partners.

I would never give myself a BB or claim but that does not mean I can not teach self defense to others.

I respond by saying that you're a moral person who wants another person to give you a black belt, not just give it to yourself. That's respectable.

But it does not change the fact that, if we are to believe the story, the kid was of black belt skill in sparring (of some sort). He didn't like kata, but there are plenty of arts without kata. So it's his art and, therefore, his ranking system. If he had put on a pink belt, claiming it the highest in his art, would we still be having this conversation? Probably not. But because it's "Black Belt" it matters.

The way I see it, we have 2nd and 3rd degree black belts out there learning two or three styles and suddenly making up their own and giving themselves 10th degree BBs in them. Happens all the time. People don't make a fuss about it.

If the kid can do what he says is necessary for earning a black belt in his system, than he's a black belt. It's up to everyone else to sort out the bull crud from the facts.

Again I state, the story is a bit far fetched. But i take it at face value because I have no evidence to the contrary. Plus it makes for interesting conversation...as evidenced by 16 pages of content.

[madtanker]

I believe that if he is recognized as a person who uses reasonably proper techniques, then he is no worse than some of the creators of many martial arts (I cannot remember the name of the artist that created Tang Soo Do; however, it seems to me this is the way that he learned)...

If he bears the responsibility, and his performance is proven, then he should register a style, and get his belt and Dan(s) recognized....

[shinka]

It's complicated...

Like many said before me...

He's not a black belt on paper,record and lineage in history.

To open a school could be hard cause people want some backgrounds...

BUT...If he would be bad in his art i wouldn't give him the belt but since he won many matches and look like he gots good technics that can compete with other black belts..Well in some ways maybe he deserve it...

At first....A black belt was a white belt who workd hard and studied for a long time...so since he did that in a way...... Well, you get my point.

[darksoul]

It's complicated...

Like many said before me...

He's not a black belt on paper,record and lineage in history.

To open a school could be hard cause people want some backgrounds...

BUT...If he would be bad in his art i wouldn't give him the belt but since he won many matches and look like he gots good technics that can compete with other black belts..Well in some ways maybe he deserve it...

At first....A black belt was a white belt who workd hard and studied for a long time...so since he did that in a way...... Well, you get my point.

This is true. At the same time, I like lineage. Toughy for sure.

[quinteros1963]

Skill speaks for itself. I would prefer to have the skill than the belt only. After all the belt is just an outward sign of your skill! I agree that your lineage is important; however I have met some who have the belt without the skills.

[SteyrAUG]

As many people have noted, nobody on Okinawa wore a black belt prior to the 20th century. The first martial art to adopt a belt grading system was Jigaro Kano's Judo in the late 1800s. When Karate was introduced to Japan in the early 1920s one of the requirements for admission to the Japanese martial arts governing body was the adoption of a standard uniform and an established grading system of rank. Both of these were barrowed from Judo.

The first question my teacher asked me (and every other student) was if you could have the skills of a black belt but not the rank or certificate or the certified rank of a black belt without the skills which would be more important to you. The correct answer for being accepted should have been obvious but there were still more than a few who answered "But I'll still get the belt and certificate right?"

For quite a long time we have trained informally wearing gi pants and a t shirt with no indicators of rank at all. Part of this is done with the local climate of South Florida in mind but it is also done so that we train for training and not for belts. This is especially productive when we have visiting martial artists from other school come "work out" with us.

There are no belts so you simply see what everyone actually knows. You either can or you can't, no belt, uniform or certificate will change that. If you are a skilled yudansha grade I can take all your recognition away from you and you will still be an obvious yudansha grade martial artist.

[sensei8]

As many people have noted, nobody on Okinawa wore a black belt prior to the 20th century. The first martial art to adopt a belt grading system was Jigaro Kano's Judo in the late 1800s. When Karate was introduced to Japan in the early 1920s one of the requirements for admission to the Japanese martial arts governing body was the adoption of a standard uniform and an established grading system of rank. Both of these were barrowed from Judo.

The first question my teacher asked me (and every other student) was if you could have the skills of a black belt but not the rank or certificate or the certified rank of a black belt without the skills which would be more important to you. The correct answer for being accepted should have been obvious but there were still more than a few who answered "But I'll still get the belt and certificate right?"

For quite a long time we have trained informally wearing gi pants and a t shirt with no indicators of rank at all. Part of this is done with the local climate of South Florida in mind but it is also done so that we train for training and not for belts. This is especially productive when we have visiting martial artists from other school come "work out" with us.

There are no belts so you simply see what everyone actually knows. You either can or you can't, no belt, uniform or certificate will change that. If you are a skilled yudansha grade I can take all your recognition away from you and you will still be an obvious yudansha grade martial artist.

Solid post!!

To the bold type above...

You've given me a chance to quote my most favorite quote...Proof is on the floor!!