A true black belt? or a fake?

[Groinstrike]

So if i have no formal training and am in an altercation with someone who trains martial arts, maybe even a black belt does it make me a better strategist to run away and then hit them with my buick?????

Sorry if this as viewed as a snarky remark

[Liver Punch]

So if i have no formal training and am in an altercation with someone who trains martial arts, maybe even a black belt does it make me a better strategist to run away and then hit them with my buick?????

Sorry if this as viewed as a snarky remark

Without having read this entire thread for a week or two, I can tell you one thing. It's always a good idea to hit them with your Buick. Automobiles - particularly those favored by the elderly, have a very high force multiplication level.

[quinteros1963]

quinteros1963 wrote:

Who cares if he doesn't have a certicate from association X?

Well, at the risk of sounding reduntant, especially in TMA, a black belt isn't just about winning fights, it signifies a comprehensive understanding of the curriculum, and the ability to pass it along. In arts that are predominantly fighting, being able to win fights might be adequate to teach others how to fight, but when there are lots of kata, one step routines, bunkai, maybe kobudo, etc. involved, then you have to know those well enough to teach them. IMO.

I think that being a blackbelt signifies an understaning of the basics, but not the entire curriculum. That comes at Sandan or higher. A blackbelt should be proficient at his art. This proficiency should translate in being able to defend oneself. Does this mean that you will never lose a fight or sparring match? Of course not. If you are able to teach on any subject matter, you should at some point in your life be able to apply it. Isn't that what kata and more importantly bunkai are all about? Any teachers I have had in MA and Academia have demonstrated a high level of understanding, which is why they are able to teach. If a teenager is able to better demonstrate his knowledge of combat than someone who has been trained and awarded a blackbelt then I say that teenager is blackbelt level.

Just my opinion.

Oss

[still kicking]

quoting quinteros1963:

I think that being a blackbelt signifies an understaning of the basics, but not the entire curriculum. That comes at Sandan or higher.

quinteros, I know you said this was just your opinion, but I think your statement perfectly illustrates why it is so difficult to have this discussion. It also helps explain the reason for 3-4 year black belts vs 8-10 year black belts. I used to regularly observe a Shotokan class (due to knowing someone in the class), and was told that one student had attained bb in 3 years, "but he was training 3x/week". Usually it took 4 years at 2x/week. In my system, 8 years would be a very good result, and that's training 4-6x/week in the last year or two, and 3x/week is considered minimal. By shodan you have a pretty comprehensive understanding of the curriculum, and are expected to teach classes, though of course understanding gets deeper with time. To me, the Shotokan black belts I observed were quite good, but about as good as our 4th or 3rd kyus -- who had about the same amount of time in.

Well, I hope this doesn't sound like a "my style's better" kind of thing, but as has been said many times already, a rank only has meaning within a system! IMO.

[quinteros1963]

quoting quinteros1963:

I think that being a blackbelt signifies an understaning of the basics, but not the entire curriculum. That comes at Sandan or higher.

quinteros, I know you said this was just your opinion, but I think your statement perfectly illustrates why it is so difficult to have this discussion. It also helps explain the reason for 3-4 year black belts vs 8-10 year black belts. I used to regularly observe a Shotokan class (due to knowing someone in the class), and was told that one student had attained bb in 3 years, "but he was training 3x/week". Usually it took 4 years at 2x/week. In my system, 8 years would be a very good result, and that's training 4-6x/week in the last year or two, and 3x/week is considered minimal. quote]

Wow 6x/week! It sounds like you are training for a professional fight!Where I currently train it will take about 5 or more years until you can test for Shodan. My old school would take about 4. At which time you don't know the entire curriculum (26 kata and bunkai take much longer than even 10 years), but you are able to teach as an assistant (with lower ranks). But I digress, If you can stand with a black belt then IMO you are blackbelt level.

[bushido_man96]

I don't think evaluating skill level is the issue here. What is at issue, is if that level of skill can be displayed, as in winning fights with other black belts, are you deserving to be considered a black belt, and thus, wear one?

[quinteros1963]

The truth is that anyone can order a belt and certificate for that matter. Some may argue that because they are good fighters they are black belts, while others may claim a some sort of enlightenment or awareness to become one. Perhaps the kid beat someone who earned a blackbelt in 18 months or maybe it was a 10 year blackbelt. I say if the kid created his own style then good for him and his proven rank. Would it be recognized in any of the organizations represented here? I'm not yudansa so I have zero say in the orgs in which I belong, but skill in my eyes should be acknowledged. I say sign his certificate he is real.

[Kodakmint]

The truth is that anyone can order a belt and certificate for that matter. Some may argue that because they are good fighters they are black belts, while others may claim a some sort of enlightenment or awareness to become one. Perhaps the kid beat someone who earned a blackbelt in 18 months or maybe it was a 10 year blackbelt. I say if the kid created his own style then good for him and his proven rank. Would it be recognized in any of the organizations represented here? I'm not yudansa so I have zero say in the orgs in which I belong, but skill in my eyes should be acknowledged. I say sign his certificate he is real.

I agree

[ps1]

Bruce Lee NEVER earned a black belt or any certification stating he was of high level of skill. Yet he his almost worshiped in his own right.

Moreover, people create styles all the time.

Who are we to say they are or are not a black belt. All I can say is he isn't a black belt under me.

[straightblast]

Bruce Lee may not have earned a black belt but he did have formal training in WC and trained with many black blets, most of his students were ranked in some martial art.

This so called BB sounds like he worked by himself for 3 years and from the sound of it put his BB on prior to teaching himself.

At first it is stated that there is no other school in the area but 3 years later BB's and instructors were all all over the place.

I myself do not have a BB nor will I but I do have 3 years of shotokan, 1 year kempo and less time in other arts and currenty working with my son who is enrolled in Doce Pares.

I find it rather easy to learn from DVD's, books and even observing my son's class, however you need training partners.

I would never give myself a BB or claim but that does not mean I can not teach self defense to others.