A true black belt? or a fake?

[WireFrame]

He's obviously a naturally talented fighter, and learning specific techniques CORRECTLY without guidance or correction is highly impressive too. I am not questioning his merit as a martial artist.

But if he places value on the fact that he wears a black belt, without it being granted by a teacher, then he's missing the point of a belt. Either way though, he is at that level, obviously. I think the whole belt issue would be more justified if he began teaching his combined style to others. Because if we're to attribute value to a belt being black at all, it should be the fact that most black belts are capable of passing on what they have learned.

[RichardZ]

But, there are those who equate a black belt with fighting skills.

[still kicking]

Thought I would comment on an ancient thread. I was going to dutifully read through all 12 pages of comments first, to see if anyone already said this, but didn't make it, though did read many interesting posts while I tried. The poll shows that 2/3 of people think his BB is fake, and 1/3 think it's legit. I was wondering how those proportions would compare to the number of traditional MA'ists on here, vs. non-traditional. I think that in traditional MA's, which is what I practice, it's about much more than being a good fighter, but being qualified to pass on a curriculum, and hand down a lineage. It's true that someone had to start the style in the first place, but in my opinion, at this point in history it is different. I know that there are plenty of McDojos and little kid 2 year black belts out there, and also lots of people who can fight who have never studied a formal martial art. To be honest I question whether something is a "martial art" if it is not traditional, and would be more inclined to call it a fighting style or fighting system. The point I am trying to make is that to know the "meaning" of any black belt, someone would need to know the context of the standards within that school and/or organization (2 years or 10 years on avg. being one standard), and also is the person qualified to pass on the teachings of that style that have gone on before, also to a suitably high standard. It would be interesting if 2/3 of the people on here said they did traditional MA's, and 1/3 something else. Maybe there is such a poll on KF and I am just not aware of it.

[Mistassailant5]

In my opinion he is not a true black belt, but my story is extremely similar to his. I can't afford to go to a school so I practiced by myself and I frequently challenge black belts of various arts and to this day I still have not one loss. He may not be a true black belt, but he may have the skill of one.

[Akikazeninja]

This kid is a streetfighter thats it he has none of the following: self control discipline humility perseverence or wisdom i have many friends that are VERY good fighters but they dont go buy black belts and challenge random people because u cant just quit then "make" your own style and be a black belt this is frowned upon by many i have talked to about this. I dont doubt he is a good fighter but that doesnt take a lot of skill but being patient enough to endure years of training to be a legit BB requires a lot of skill. another topic i am thinking that the black belts he fought probably shouldnt be black belts my sensei took six and a half years to get his BB because he wanted to be good at the things he does, he lived in japan trained under our granmaster and payed his dues he didnt just go challenge people win then call himself a black belt sounds like this kid just needs to go to the UFc to see what real fighting is

[Akikazeninja]

More Devil's Advocate here:

Helio Gracie never had any lessons in Jujitsu. Anyone think he or his family are fake black belts?

No we dont but he teaches it to others as a legit martial art not just saying he knows moves and just makes them up. this kid may be a talented fighter but that isnt what MA is about to me that is what thugs r for i dont care if people challenge others to a fight but dont wear the belt because it doesnt mean anything if u can just fight like i said earlier a true black belt has taken his time done things right learned his stuff and tested on it. i could go to my school challenge people in a fight and if i just kept winning i wouldnt say to myself well if i am this good i should probably be a black belt because i am good at one thing...fighting

[brickshooter]

Helio studied Judo newaza/Jui Jitsu before he further developed it into today's BJJ.

It wasn't as if Helio was born with a black belt as his umbilical cord and wrapped in a gi by his doctor.

Careful with all the marketing propaganda the Gracies put out.

[bushido_man96]

More Devil's Advocate here:

Helio Gracie never had any lessons in Jujitsu. Anyone think he or his family are fake black belts?

No we dont but he teaches it to others as a legit martial art not just saying he knows moves and just makes them up. this kid may be a talented fighter but that isnt what MA is about to me that is what thugs r for i dont care if people challenge others to a fight but dont wear the belt because it doesnt mean anything if u can just fight like i said earlier a true black belt has taken his time done things right learned his stuff and tested on it. i could go to my school challenge people in a fight and if i just kept winning i wouldnt say to myself well if i am this good i should probably be a black belt because i am good at one thing...fighting

I would disagree with you first point: MAs are about fighting. Being able to fight well does mean something. Now, as for the black belt. Typically, a black belt it earned by meeting a set curriculum of some type, evaluated through class participations and testings, much like degrees are earned. So, I think that one should earn a black belt to be considered one.

[brickshooter]

IMO, a black belt signifies expert knowledge in a combat system. But that's all that is - knowledge.

If we give black belts out to winning fights, then would Mike Tyson beating a Jiu Jitsu BB earn his BB in Jiu Jitsu?

Would a 250lbs. white belt male beating a 100lbs. BB female in Karate earn his BB in Karate?

[JiuJitsuNation]

IMO, a black belt signifies expert knowledge in a combat system. But that's all that is - knowledge.

If we give black belts out to winning fights, then would Mike Tyson beating a Jiu Jitsu BB earn his BB in Jiu Jitsu?

Would a 250lbs. white belt male beating a 100lbs. BB female in Karate earn his BB in Karate?

I'll tell you what, if Mike Tyson can beat me in a fight, I will hand him my own black belt. lol

I look at it like this. A BB in BJJ takes on average eight to ten years. The title for that belt is fighter, not teacher, not instructor and certainly not professor. So after obtaining a belt in BJJ it appears to me that only then do they consider you able to take care of your self or at least understand a fight enough to be involved in one. A few years later comes the title of teacher and several more you become professor. And seeing as from my experience "Mcdojos" are the majority and legit schools the minority, this person hasn't proved a whole lot.