A true black belt? or a fake?

[Traymond]

Lets take the okaku kata for instance done by Matayoshi Shinko. It has to be done exactly the same. What I am referring to by localization of the movements is that when you master something and are able to teach it, you can then try to change things up a bit, whether it is done intentionally or not, it still will be done no matter what. As with age the neko ashi Dachi can not be done as low and elegant as it has been done before unless you eat right and watch your body correctly, which alot of practitioners dont.

If you would have read the full text on what I said you would have understood that I was disregarding any attempts to bring honor to the teacher into this discussion about localization because it is a touchy subject because everyone thinks their aspect of honor is right and everyone elses is wrong. I dont really care what aspect you may have.

Back to the okaku kata

this kata is so traditional that once at an okinawan open I went to I seen a girl do the okaku kata 'wrong', by stepping out to quick once and she got extremely low results. This cannot be localized unless you plan on never showing a traditional okinawan judge or karate practitioner.

I began speaking about how things change from practitioner to practitioner such as student to teacher, how students tend to mimic their instructor because thats the only base of information they know. I do all the techniques the way my instructors show me them because they know more then me and they always will. When my students have questions I gladly refer them to my instructors, because they have the right to answer the question their way, because to me their are a soke of the style.

[tallgeese]

I'm not a kata guy, so I'm not up in the ettiquite of how it's done or should be done. I know that for the few schools in the group I'm part of have altered kata to make them more in line with everything else they do. If it serves your purposes, who cares if it's not proper to a larger body.

Now, if part of your purposes in doing the form are advancment under the umbrealla of a larger group, then by definition you'd best not be altering things.

I only use "honor" because you bring it up in regards to alteration a couple of posts back. Make of it what you will, that's my feeling.

Yes, you're instructor knows more than you *about that art*. As you amass experiance, you'll find things from others systems that might work better. If you want to make the most out of your ma, then you'll modify what you do. No harm there.

[Kuma]

While I can understand someone not being able to train under a qualified instructor at times (I myself still trained despite a few deployments overseas), an individual who learns only from books and DVDs is not going to be nearly as proficient as someone who has a qualified instructor.

Yes, you can learn off of those medias but unless you have a solid foundation (meaning a decent grasp of the fundamentals of what you're studying), you're not going to get much out of it.

I would be wary of anyone claiming to be a self-trained MAist personally.

[Traymond]

Yes, you're instructor knows more than you *about that art*. As you amass experiance, you'll find things from others systems that might work better. If you want to make the most out of your ma, then you'll modify what you do. No harm there.

BUt then you do not just become a martial artist then you tend to become a mixed martial artist (nothing wrong with that either )

But what i was trying to ask in the most basic of wording would be.

if you go to a open tournament would you keep everything the way your teacher showed you or would you do what you thot more comfortable.?

[tallgeese]

As with so many of my answers ( ), it depends.

[Grego]

The first martial artists never used a ranking system to self-proclaim themselves masters of an art.

OSensei Funakoshi is credited with introducing the belt system we use now. Before that, all recognition came from PEERS. Unless your skills are acknowledged by those around you, throwing around a black belt is worthless.

It sounds like his reasoning behind donning a black belt was for attention.

I'm sorry, but I can't take the guy seriously as a martial artist. If all he wants to do is fight, there are many many MMA places springing up around the country.

Karate, TKD, and every other martial art is more than just fighting.

[bushido_man96]

its a process known as localization, when you venture from your teacher you tend to loosen things up a bit. But what I am speaking of is, are you going to do what you feel more comfortable doing such as a differant stance, or would you do it the same as the way your teacher showed it to you?

It depends on how it works for me. If it doesn't work for me, I probably won't use it at all. Now, that doesn't mean that I wouldn't teach it to someone else the way he taught it to me, because it may work well that way for that person.

[bushido_man96]

Karate, TKD, and every other martial art is more than just fighting.

I disagree here. Studying a Martial Art, in my opinion, is about learning to defend oneself. Ideally, character traits are put in place at home, at the church, and instilled from society in general, and should not be the goal of a Martial Arts instructor.

With that said, everyone has a different goal. If these are things that one wants to pursue in the Martial Arts, then that is fine. However, I don't think that it is right to insist that all practitioners be in it for these reasons, and that if they seek other goals, that they cannot be considered Martial Artists.

BUt then you do not just become a martial artist then you tend to become a mixed martial artist

Aren't Mixed Martial Artists still Martial Artists? With all of the styles that you have practiced over the years, wouldn't you consider yourself a Mixed Stylist?

[Traymond]

Karate, TKD, and every other martial art is more than just fighting.

I disagree here. Studying a Martial Art, in my opinion, is about learning to defend oneself. Ideally, character traits are put in place at home, at the church, and instilled from society in general, and should not be the goal of a Martial Arts instructor.

With that said, everyone has a different goal. If these are things that one wants to pursue in the Martial Arts, then that is fine. However, I don't think that it is right to insist that all practitioners be in it for these reasons, and that if they seek other goals, that they cannot be considered Martial Artists.

BUt then you do not just become a martial artist then you tend to become a mixed martial artist

Aren't Mixed Martial Artists still Martial Artists? With all of the styles that you have practiced over the years, wouldn't you consider yourself a Mixed Stylist?

I agree with Bushido on the first part, because when you break down the term Martial its another word for Military. What you do in the dojo is different from what you learn at home...your parents or guardians should give you your morals, your martial arts training should just compliment that.

And I consider myself a mixed stylist fighter, but when im practicing a certain style I do that style completely the way it was taught to me I never incorporate anything into it, unless I am practicing shinchuurou te, my mixed style I have created.

[bushido_man96]

But the influences are still not there?