A true black belt? or a fake?

[RyoSakazaki]

This story is true about a friend of mine.(he wants to remain anny.)

My friend was 13 years old when he got interested in martial arts. So he joins a karate dojo near his home. He enjoyed it for a while, and even got to orange belt. But soon he started to get bored by it. Not because of him losing interest in fighting but because he hated how his classes were. He said his classes were basically mostly katas and learning one or two new techniques a week. He really likes to spar but his class would only spar once every two weeks on fridays for 15 minutes near the end of class, and he only has class 3 days a week. So he didn't do much fighting really, just mostly katas which he found boring. I know some karate styles focus more on katas then fighting I think.

So eventually he quit the dojo. He would've joined another but that was the only one in his area. But he still loved martial arts. So later on that year he bought a new gi and a black belt and started training. He said it was hard since he had no instructor to guide and help him, but he didn't stop. He didn't use a particular style of karate, he just copied techniques he saw some from some other martial arts; Muay Thai, Baji Quan, Mantis Kung Fu, Taekwondo etc. So he eventually created his own style of karate. I think he named it "RyuukuNoKen".

About 3 years later after training alone he started to challenge some other martial artists around his area. They were all blackbelts (don't know what degrees) he won about almost all of his matches. He even challenged a dojo instructor and won.

But the thing is when he was asked what school he studied at he would say he taught himself. Pretty soon a lot of martial artists in the area and in comptetions thought he was a fake and didn't earn that black belt since he bought it and didn't earn it. But he would mostly respond that his skill was equal to a fighter who earned his black belt and a belt doesn't necessarily mean anything just your rank.

Now what I want to ask everyone is does he deserve to wear that belt or is he a fake since he didn't earn it from an instructor?

(BTW to this day he still trains and competes)

[obiwansbane]

what did the first martial artist do? invent a style and call himself a master or "black belt" ... so do they not deserve it cause they obviously gave it to themselves as there was noone before them to give it to them.

so your friend just did what people thousands of years ago did he deserves it if he wins, and has that kind of skill and discipline required of a martial artist...

i highly doubt he will become part of some organization though, and gaining students may be hard if he decided to make his own school one day

[lordtariel]

All it takes to get a black belt is about $10... The belt doesn't really mean anything at all. It's a strip of fabric meant to hold your gi together.

I do find it hard to believe that someone training on their own without the aid of an instructor could really pull himself up to the level of training a senior student. Difficult, but not necessarily impossible.

But you also need to remember, he said that the place he was training at did mainly kata and no sparring. Would it really be that difficult to be better at sparring then them?

[obiwansbane]

about 3 years later after training alone he started to challenge some other martial artists around his area. They were all blackbelts (don't know what degrees) he won about almost all of his matches. He even challenged a dojo instructor and won.

i don't think he challenged his old club members... just random people

[DWx]

Just wondering, RyoSakazaki, how old was your friend when he quit karate? If he was 13 when he started, was he still a teenager when he quit? Personally I doubt that someone that young could create his own proper style and call himself (or herself) a black belt. They just haven't developed the maturity yet.

He may have the fighting skills but IMO there's a lot more to that strip of fabric than being able to beat people up...

[The BB of C]

This story is true about a friend of mine.(he wants to remain anny.)

My friend was 13 years old when he got interested in martial arts. So he joins a karate dojo near his home. He enjoyed it for a while, and even got to orange belt. But soon he started to get bored by it. Not because of him losing interest in fighting but because he hated how his classes were. He said his classes were basically mostly katas and learning one or two new techniques a week. He really likes to spar but his class would only spar once every two weeks on fridays for 15 minutes near the end of class, and he only has class 3 days a week. So he didn't do much fighting really, just mostly katas which he found boring. I know some karate styles focus more on katas then fighting I think.

So eventually he quit the dojo. He would've joined another but that was the only one in his area. But he still loved martial arts. So later on that year he bought a new gi and a black belt and started training. He said it was hard since he had no instructor to guide and help him, but he didn't stop. He didn't use a particular style of karate, he just copied techniques he saw some from some other martial arts; Muay Thai, Baji Quan, Mantis Kung Fu, Taekwondo etc. So he eventually created his own style of karate. I think he named it "RyuukuNoKen".

About 3 years later after training alone he started to challenge some other martial artists around his area. They were all blackbelts (don't know what degrees) he won about almost all of his matches. He even challenged a dojo instructor and won.

But the thing is when he was asked what school he studied at he would say he taught himself. Pretty soon a lot of martial artists in the area and in comptetions thought he was a fake and didn't earn that black belt since he bought it and didn't earn it. But he would mostly respond that his skill was equal to a fighter who earned his black belt and a belt doesn't necessarily mean anything just your rank.

Now what I want to ask everyone is does he deserve to wear that belt or is he a fake since he didn't earn it from an instructor?

(BTW to this day he still trains and competes)

Your friend's name wouldn't happen to be Nicholas, would it? I'm just kidding. But I believe he's right. If you train yourself and get the skill to beat someone who has trained just as much and earned a real black belt, then it doesn't really matter if he is a "real" or "fake" black belt. Almost the same thing happened to me.

I got truely interested in martial arts when I was 13 as a means of defending myself against bullies at school. My father wouldn't sign me up for a class, so I had to teach myself. But I didn't have any real martial arts experience except for some really basic techniques taught to me when I was very young by my older brother. I trained myself, learing what other martial arts were about and immitating what I saw useful from some of them, doing anything I could to learn and teach myself a new move. Even taking moves from various characters in different fighting video games, martial arts movies, and action television shows. I found effective ways to move, stand, defend, attack, and apply the moves, and I believe the result qualifies as a martial arts style.

I have defeated quite a few black belts in my time before and after I started training Kuk Sool Won with it and I can say from first-hand experience it does not matter much.

[RyoSakazaki]

No, he didn't create his own "style" at 13, he started to get really serious when he was 15, and then started to create a fighting style. His fighting style wasn't created to teach others but more suited for himself. And his old school did spar but it was only like once every 2 weeks for like a few minutes.

[bushido_man96]

There are plenty of streetfighters out there that can do what your friend has done. They just don't name it a style. They just call it fighting. You don't have to have stylized training to be a good fighter. Fighting can make you a good fighter.

However, ordering a black belt and calling yourself one, sounds kind of shady to me. This kind of goes down the line of the McDojo arguement.

[whitematt]

I question the fact that he "challenged and beat" others - especially head instructors/owners.

What method did they use to determine a winner? Was is full contact? Did they both fight using the same ruleset - or no rules at all? Was there anyone there to verify that he won? Were waivers signed in the event of an injury?

This is not to say your friend is not a skilled fighter. But I don't see someone that is running a legitimate program/business agreeing to fight someone they don't know for bragging rights. If I were to seriously injure someone that walked in off the street and challenged me, I could lose everything I have worked for - waiver or not.

[boyo1991]

tough call....