Break falls...not so good?

[ninjer]

That's a good post, ninjer. Thanks for the information and the links. I think that both the Judo/Jujitsu players and the Wrestlers all have something in common: they don't have to worry about being struck after the takedowns. On the street, that is a definite possibility to deal with.

However, I can understand the points you are making in your post, and they have merit.

Upon landing, you have to be ready to deal with being struck or jumped on, and each would be dealt with differently, I think.

Being hit once the fight goes to the ground doesnt often happen immediately. For one, the person executing the takedown is using alot of energy to do so. He expects the person his taking down to fight with everything they have to avoid the takedown, and as such hes going to be holding on to whatever it is he grabbed (hips, leg, etc) to ensure he finishes the takedown and his opponent is grounded. It wouldnt make sense to do a takedown half way, only to start striking and lose the entire takedown- its a waste of energy.

So, why doesnt the guy doing the takedown start blazing away with blows? Generally speaking, the person on top is going to relax his pressure (from the intial takedown attempt) once his opponent stops fighting the takedown. His opponent will either fight the takedown, in which case the other holds on and drops his weight, or he feels his energy is better spent defending himself since his not winning the takedown fight. The moment he decides this he usually goes on the defensive and grab ahold of his opponent in some way, keeping him close to avoid strikes. Now the person on top has to fight to get his posture before he can start to strike effectively.

Heres a nice "Judo in MMA" clip showing alot of takedowns. You'll notice that when they execute their takedowns, they want to make sure they're maintaining their position before they move on to the next step in attacking- its common sense.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ln-S0m0NQXs

[bushido_man96]

Thanks, ninjer. Good points, there. What you say makes sense.

So, even against opponents that are inexperienced in fighting or grappling, do you think the tendency to hold on is going to take hold?

[ninjer]

Thanks, ninjer. Good points, there. What you say makes sense.

So, even against opponents that are inexperienced in fighting or grappling, do you think the tendency to hold on is going to take hold?

Against an inexperienced (untrained) person in a fight, the tendency to hold on to someone is going to be even moreso. A trained fighter knows when to abandon one technique and switch to another.

For example, when you train with someone who's a novice on the ground, natrual instict is to grab a headlock. Should the other person start to capitalize on your mistake of a headlock (i.e. sweep, armbar, take the back, etc) someone with experience is going to know that their technique (the headlock) is being beaten by their opponents counter and are going to abandon that technique in order to start defending your attack. An untrained person most of the time grabs something and holds it just for the sake of holding it- and they often have no idea what else to do. Since they have no idea of how to fight on the ground, they're also not going to recognize that you're effectively defeating their position.

[bushido_man96]

That is a good point, ninjer. Thanks for your help on this thread. I appreciate it a lot.

[ps1]

Someone else mentioned the desire for the opponent to retain your arm and armbar you as you fall. If the opponent is good skilled enough to perform a takedown and followup with an armbar, you were probably outclassed anyway.

I'm not sure if you were referring to my earlier post or not, but I meant that the person being taken down should try and maneuver for the armbar, or at least try to capture something on the way down to prevent their opponent getting a totally dominant position.

I see what you're saying. I certainly agree. Kinda like starting the elbow escape from the mount before the opponent is able to complete their mount. That goes back to what I was saying about the importance of knowing good ground fighting. I don't bother to slap off when I'm applying a submission on the way down. That would be counter-productive. Good point.