Break falls...not so good?

[bushido_man96]

A friend of mine and I have been practicing some Combat Hapkido, along with a blend of some concepts from J. Hock Hocheim's self-defense system.

We began discussing breakfalls, and Hock likes it when martial artists do a slapping, traditional breakfall, because they can then "die like a martial artist." What he means by this is that the breakfall has become so ingrained in the martial artist that when he is taken down, he will fall and slap (the traditional breakfall), stopping his momentum, and leaving himself in place to be attacked and taken advantage of.

What my friend was talking about along with this was the idea of rolling out or away during the fall, in order to get away from the assailant, and keeping your body as far away as possible from an ensuing attack once you are taken down.

After discussing it with my partner, and seeing some ideas of what he was talking about, I think I agree with him. Anybody else have any thoughts on this?

[blackxpress]

The way we were taught to do it is to break fall and then roll onto your side and chamber your leg for a kick. If you can get off a good kick before your attacker gets on top of you, well and good. If not, you're in a better position to keep him from pinning you to the ground and getting a submission hold on you.

[lordtariel]

I've always been taught to slap to dissipate some of the shock of impact. Rolling has it's place, but the problem with it is that it's a committed action, you can't stop and change your mind halfway through. I almost think it's better to go defensive from the ground until it's safe to get up. The only time I'd roll is in the case of having too much forward momentum.

[Ottman]

I still slap on break-falls about 50% of the time. Depends on how I'm falling. Being aware of what is going on around you is more important than whether you slap the ground or not in my mind. You can slap, as long as you aren't so focused on the 'break-fall technique' and more focused on getting into the proper position for good defense. In other words, don't force the slap. If it happens it happens.

Anyway, much better to make sure that you're not banging your head on the ground. Slapping won't stop this, you just have to keep your head up.

Another thing to think about: what if your opponent is wide open for an arm bar on the way down? (or at least is giving you an opening?) I'd grab the arm and control the opponent before worrying about slapping the ground. A little bump isn't so bad when you can immediately turn the tables on an opponent and slap (no pun intended) an arm bar on him, or sweep him, etc. I'd suck it up and take the fall a little harder if I saw an opening to control the opponent.

If you land with your weight spread out across your body (trying to let as much of your body make contact with the ground as possible) you should be all right anyway.

[AikiGuy]

The answer is...both! My dojo practice breakfalls alone, and also breakfalls with a roll out of the way. They both have their place. Soemtimes you just need to protect yourself from the fall like if there's glass or rocks on the ground. Other times, maybe you were pushed and you need to move or defend. Both are very important to plan for. It's like asking if we should practice blocking a punch and counter-attacking or just blocking and stepping away to avoid more shots. Of course, we practice both of these along with many variations of each since we know there are many scenarios we may face in our lives.

[bushido_man96]

I've always been taught to slap to dissipate some of the shock of impact. Rolling has it's place, but the problem with it is that it's a committed action, you can't stop and change your mind halfway through. I almost think it's better to go defensive from the ground until it's safe to get up. The only time I'd roll is in the case of having too much forward momentum.

I have always been taught to slap as well. However, when my partner showed me what can happen to you when you stop everything and slap, and he remains above in a dominant position. It can get ugly.

I do think that maybe slapping in order to take advantage of an armbar could be a possibility, but I think that most of the time the person throwing you is going to try to maintain an arm, and end up armbarring you instead. I could be wrong here, though (it happens from time to time ) Another exapmle that Hocheim demonstrated on the DVD was the incidence of slapping the ground in an alley with rocks, or on the street, or even in a bar, as opposed to rolling away and saving your limbs.

I think that the slap has its place as well, however, do we rely on it too much?

[AndrewGreen]

Slapping comes in to play very rarely, only on a very clean up and down fast on your upperback kind of throw.

It is generally to be avoided whenever possible though.

The slap the ground breakfalls are not something I can remember ever seeing in wrestling training, or pro-wrestling (granted I don't watch it) and wrestlers Olympic and Pro, know a few things about falling as well.

Judo seems to be the big source, which is rather odd IMO as doing a big clean, perfect breakfall in that way will likely get Ippon for the other guy...

[marie curie]

I do a street-fighting method that utilizes take-downs, and while rolling away is all well and good on the mat- in a bar, sidewalk, or, heck, in the woods it isn't going to work nearly as well (stuff gets in the way- uneven ground topography can get you stuck upside-down or sideways. So if you are on a clear even surface- awesome, but otherwise rolling isn't always a great option. I know that in a real fight (not going easy on one another) if I end up going to the ground, I always- every single time- end up taking the attacker with me. It's a better fight from my perspective than him up and me down.

[Ottman]

Absolutely mc. If I'm going down, he's coming with me.

[AndrewGreen]

rolling a way is not a good option in sport on matts either, often leaves you with someone on your back