What's this guy thinking?

[learning kempo-karate]

Hello, The Gracie's systems and the Grace's family of fighters....are some the best in the world.

This Kempoist Instructor sure learn his system does not work for this style of fighting.

Everyone knows once someone takes you to the ground..it is because they got you off balance and now has the advantages over you.

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Anytime you feel you need to challenge someone...it is because you have not grown up enough. This guy wanted to brag how good he is as a kenpo stylist.

The Kenpo guy was beaten twice...and if they fought to the death...the kenpo guy would have been choke out.

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Remember it is not only the style of fighting you train in..but also your mental mind that needs to be sharp and strong.

Gracies were smarter to fight there fight and not the kenpoist style.

To me the Kenpo Instructor is inmature and has a learn a valueable lesson maybe? ........Aloha

PS:The Kenpo guy needs more learning......and training!

[ps1]

I think that if I were the Kempo stylist, I would have began the fight by keeping my hands up. He did not defend the takedown well at all. And to be quite honest, I don't think that BJJ has very strong takedowns. Royler is a skilled grappler, but I didn't think his takedown was a very good one.

If their is a weakness in BJJ, I would say it is in the actual takedowns. Sure, they get their opponents down eventually, but I think that the styles of Wrestling and Judo are better about getting to the ground.

I usually agree with just about everything you say. But keep in mind that Brazilian Jiujitsu has every take down that Judo has. The link below is of Rickson, Roion and Royler at a Judo club in 1987. This was the school of Howard Nishioka who is a legend in the sport (Rickson, of course, beats him a couple times). My point is that it's a good school and they all hold their own. Howard is even heard saying that Rickson and Royler could represent their country or the US in international Judo competition easily.

While Royler's take first take down in the video was a little sloppy, the second one was text book. Watch how he hooks the leg and rolls through with it.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1015797790370952500&q=royler+and+rickson&hl=en

Thats an insult to anyone who's a judoka in Brazil. After Japan, I would say that Brazil probably has the best Judo fighters. Brazilians are very skilled at Judo, and Rickson and Royler, while having good throws, are far from being able to compete at the olympic level with their judo counterparts.

I think anyone who grapples regularly in any grappling system would not be offended to be compared with Rickson Gracie. He's won world level competitions in Jiujitsu, Sambo, and a national championship in Wrestling, not to mention being one of the best MMA fighters that ever lived. He's a freak of nature when it comes to his ability feel and sense a person's movement. Maybe not now, he's getting older, but in his prime there's no doubt that if he wanted to compete in Judo, he would have been great at that too. He's a natural athlete, he has the stuff that can't be taught or learned. I seriously think you're underestimating the takedown capabilities of the Gracies. Remember that they learn the complete system, they don't just focus on the sport ground aspect that many schools are shifting toward.

[bushido_man96]

I think that if I were the Kempo stylist, I would have began the fight by keeping my hands up. He did not defend the takedown well at all. And to be quite honest, I don't think that BJJ has very strong takedowns. Royler is a skilled grappler, but I didn't think his takedown was a very good one.

If their is a weakness in BJJ, I would say it is in the actual takedowns. Sure, they get their opponents down eventually, but I think that the styles of Wrestling and Judo are better about getting to the ground.

I usually agree with just about everything you say. But keep in mind that Brazilian Jiujitsu has every take down that Judo has. The link below is of Rickson, Roion and Royler at a Judo club in 1987. This was the school of Howard Nishioka who is a legend in the sport (Rickson, of course, beats him a couple times). My point is that it's a good school and they all hold their own. Howard is even heard saying that Rickson and Royler could represent their country or the US in international Judo competition easily.

While Royler's take first take down in the video was a little sloppy, the second one was text book. Watch how he hooks the leg and rolls through with it.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1015797790370952500&q=royler+and+rickson&hl=en

Thanks for the correction, ps1. I guess it is just that in any of the fights I have watched, the takedowns didn't appear impressive. Not that they do, mind you...simplicity is the key. It is a comparison based on what I have seen in Wrestling and Judo.

[koryustudent]

To Put my two cents in...

The Gracies are amazing fighters. I can't think of any group of individuals who have done more to bring people to martial arts, with the exception of Bruce Lee, who probably put it on the map here in the U.S.

With that being said, standing I can't see a single Gracie being able to last very long with a world class judoka. That is not to say that they wouldn't hit a throw every now and again, but I think the overwhelming majority of the time they would lose the battle. I would like to see a NHB fight against a Gracie and a world class judoka. It is really too bad that Yamashita is retired. I would put his osoto gari up against any fighter anywhere.

When it goes to the ground though, it might be a different story, which I think is sad. What people fail to realize is that every single technique that exists in BJJ is there in Japanese Jujitsu and Judo. The names are just different. If anybody knows any info to the contrary please enlighten me. The problem is that in Judo's modern state, big throws is what wins matches. Ne-waza is not that important part of the sport any more. Hence judokas would much rather hit the perfect uchi mata, as opposed to finishing a match with hadaka jime (rear naked choke.)

[ninjer]

To Put my two cents in...

The Gracies are amazing fighters. I can't think of any group of individuals who have done more to bring people to martial arts, with the exception of Bruce Lee, who probably put it on the map here in the U.S.

With that being said, standing I can't see a single Gracie being able to last very long with a world class judoka. That is not to say that they wouldn't hit a throw every now and again, but I think the overwhelming majority of the time they would lose the battle. I would like to see a NHB fight against a Gracie and a world class judoka. It is really too bad that Yamashita is retired. I would put his osoto gari up against any fighter anywhere.

When it goes to the ground though, it might be a different story, which I think is sad. What people fail to realize is that every single technique that exists in BJJ is there in Japanese Jujitsu and Judo. The names are just different. If anybody knows any info to the contrary please enlighten me. The problem is that in Judo's modern state, big throws is what wins matches. Ne-waza is not that important part of the sport any more. Hence judokas would much rather hit the perfect uchi mata, as opposed to finishing a match with hadaka jime (rear naked choke.)

Hidehiko Yoshida, Olympic Gold Medalist, fought against Royce Gracie twice in Pride FC. I dont recall that any of the other Gracies have fought pure Judo practicioners since....

[bushido_man96]

What were the outcomes of the above mentioned fights?

[koryustudent]

What were the outcomes of the above mentioned fights?

In the first fight Yoshida choked out Gracie with okuri eri jime (sliding lapel choke.) It was a controversial decision because Gracie claimed he never tapped out, but the ref felt he was choked out. In the second match it went to a draw. I saw a video of the first match and it looked to me that Gracie was going out, but what the heck do I know. I haven't seen a video of the second one.

I guess the reason why we don't see that many world class judoka in MMA competitions is because they are probably all busted up from playing Judo all those years.

[ninjer]

The first match was declared a no contest. Under the rules of the match, the referee was not alowed to stop the match.

Yoshida got to a half guard position and attempted to do a sleeve choke, which Royce effectively defended. With his head covered, and possibly with Yoshida believing he had choked Royce out, the referee called a stop to the fight and immediately declared Yoshida the winner. Royce clearly wasnt choked out, because he immediately jumped to his feet the moment yoshida sat up.

If you care to find the video- its old and Im not having luck finding it- do a search for Gracie Yoshida alternate angle which clearly shows Royce wasnt being choked at all.

The rematch saw Royce dominate Yoshida on the ground, this time in MMA format, where he achieved the mount and the rear mount numerous times during the match and basically beat on Yoshida for the duration of the match. In order to avoid being hosed by the judges, the prearraged agreement was that if the fight went the distance there would be no judges decision and it would be declared a draw (these were the old rules that the Gracies had fought under for numerous years).

[TheRenegade]

Such is the practicality of a lot of so-called martial arts out there.

[gzk]

With that being said, standing I can't see a single Gracie being able to last very long with a world class judoka. That is not to say that they wouldn't hit a throw every now and again, but I think the overwhelming majority of the time they would lose the battle. I would like to see a NHB fight against a Gracie and a world class judoka.

Royce choked out Remco Pardoel in UFC 2, giving up about 80 pounds. Remco I believe won a few national Judo titles before concentrating on Jiu-Jitsu and MMA. I don't really know who's who in Judo, so maybe he wasn't what you'd call world class.