Adjusting other MA katas...

[cathal]

I agree with bearich. It should work out ok, just don't overwhelm yourself with too many katas at one time.

I agree, just have fun with it.

[straightblast]

I am a green belt in shotokan but I love to blend it with kenpo. The shotokan power and kenpo speed has opened my eyes to things I have not thought of before.

[P.A.L]

many of the katas are transferable to shotokan, mostly shuri-te and tomari-te. some kata like Sanchin has no meaning if you bring the into shotokan, like majority of Naha-te kata or white crane.

this is a example of a failed atempt to creat a crane kata by shotokan stylist. it's a mixture of some shuri-te techniques plus some randon moves of white crane and ends like a Goju ryu kata.

here is a actual crane kata

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FmASeBvCq5M

so you need to understand the kata and it's history before translating it.

[NinTai]

Question:

Why take a kata from another style and change it to shotokan?

Kata are meant to convey ideas and fighting principles.

If you take a kata and "shotokanize" it then you loose all its value.

It would be like buying a sports car and converting it into a sedan.

(or vice versa)

If your going to learn kata from another system then learn what it has to

teach you don't turn it into a dance.

[bushido_man96]

Kata are meant to convey ideas and fighting principles.

If you take a kata and "shotokanize" it then you loose all its value.

If this is what kata is about, then can I go out, get into a bunch of fights, and have someone record what happens as I do so, and then transfer the moves into a kata, using the order that I used them in the fights?

If kata are supposed to be ideas and concepts, then they are open to anyone's interpretations, and anyone can form their own ideas and concepts, based off of their own experiences. So, we could realistically end up with an endless series of katas.

[NinTai]

Kata are meant to convey ideas and fighting principles.

If you take a kata and "shotokanize" it then you loose all its value.

If this is what kata is about, then can I go out, get into a bunch of fights, and have someone record what happens as I do so, and then transfer the moves into a kata, using the order that I used them in the fights?

If kata are supposed to be ideas and concepts, then they are open to anyone's interpretations, and anyone can form their own ideas and concepts, based off of their own experiences. So, we could realistically end up with an endless series of katas.

I think you misinterpeted my point.

As an example:

Some of the cat stances from the Shorin Ryu kata where made into back stances

in the Shotokan version.

In doing so the mechanics of the techique where changed and you lose what

the origional meaning was.

If I take a Uechi Ryu kata and change sanchin dachi to a foward stance then

the mechanics and power generation of the moves change so whats the point?

As far as being open to anyone's interpetation, that's a pet peeve of mine.

Not every interpetation is correct, I've had this demonstrated to me time and time again.

It's like saying that an uneducated opinion is worth just as much as an educated opinion.

But thats just my opinion.

[bushido_man96]

If I take a Uechi Ryu kata and change sanchin dachi to a foward stance then

the mechanics and power generation of the moves change so whats the point?

One point could be that it is more comfortable for someone else to do the technique in that fashion. It can still have a point. It may not be the same point, but that is ok.

As far as making educated opinions as opposed to uneducated ones, I think you have a good point there. However, many people will lock into the tradition of what is there just because it is there. It blocks your way of thinking and adapting. It is ok to change things, sometimes. It helps to stimulate learning, and that is one of the things that Martial Arts are about, in my opinion.

[NinTai]

However, many people will lock into the tradition of what is there just because it is there. It blocks your way of thinking and adapting. It is ok to change things, sometimes. It helps to stimulate learning, and that is one of the things that Martial Arts are about, in my opinion.

Good point,

my only distinction is that if you need to change something you need to know why, and I don't mean because it feels better or because I don't

know why it's done the other way or even the dreaded "because it looks better".

My instructor does change certain aspects of what he does because of certain factors: age, previous injury, etc.

BUT when he teaches he does not teach you these things because they don't apply to you. You are taught the core concepts and techniques,

you can make slight changes due to your personal circumstances but the core of the art/kata stays the same.

[bushido_man96]

Good post, NinTai.

One point I would make is that changing something because it "feels better" can be a legitamate reason, for, like you mentioned, age reasons, previous injury, etc. I think that your body should be in a comfortable position when you fight, so that your body can be as efficient as possible. I think part of it lies there.

[NinTai]

Good post, NinTai.

One point I would make is that changing something because it "feels better" can be a legitamate reason, for, like you mentioned, age reasons, previous injury, etc. I think that your body should be in a comfortable position when you fight, so that your body can be as efficient as possible. I think part of it lies there.

I have to agree, it should feel natural.

We must be careful though, the "feels better" argument could also be made because a person is out of shape.

A low shiko-dachi (relative to your body size that is) in kata will strengthen the legs and hips (as well as teching you how to bring your weight into a technique) although a higher one may "feel better".

On the same note too low could be counter productive.

I guess that's where a good instructor comes in, to draw that fine line.