ITF Juche Tul, two-directional kick

[DWx]

I think originally sine wave was meant to reciprocate the rising and falling of the body when walking or running or whatever... over the years it has become more and more exagerated...

I've always been taught it so it seems natural to me and not doing it seems un-natural. There are benefits of doing it and of not doing it.. just preference I suppose...

Slightly off topic but:

do you think it would be easier to learn to use sine wave after say having 10 years of training without being taught it

or

would it be easier to learn not to do it after training for 10 years and doing it?

[bangkaliliang]

in my opinion, i will choose the first one, i think the regulation of the art is we train that "things" until it doesnt exist, 2 seperate things has become a thing.

i think sine-wave is a good technique, it helps to create the impact in a small distance, there is some similar part if comparing with the taichi, even in the traditional chinese kungfu, we do the opposite way before we are going to a direction. that is what i think.

[SBN Doug]

Ok, bear with me here. As you take off, thrust the takeoff knee up and into your trunk as violently and fast as you can. As you do that, the jumping leg will kind of trail behind, but not tucked really tight. Then, as you finish pulling your knee up into you, thrust that side kick out as fast and violently as you can, and at the same time, bring the trailing leg up to chamber and twist kick out as well. Turn your body away from the side kick, and towards the twist kick, making the side kick more like a back kick that (like a blind kick).

It's not in any of our hyung, but we have had to break with it a few times at testing and tourneyment.

As a warm up before applying bushido's suggestions; sit on the ground, lean back a little bit on 1 hand (as if in the air) and practice the scissor action a few (hundred ) times. Then, as bushido said, practice popping that jumping leg up to the chest & out to the side kick. Try it a few times with just the side kick but bring the jumping leg up to chamber as you kick. Also, I find it a little easier if I lean back just slightly (like on the floor). After you've done the jump & single kick a few times, mentally picture the other leg going out at the same time as the side kick. After a dozen of so jumps, you should have a good feel of your timing, then try and insert the reverse round kick.

In other words, try breaking it down into pieces and work up to the full kick.

[DWx]

Thanks for the help everyone, I tried Bushio's suggestions in class today, it really helped to know what I was actually doing with my legs... If only someone could slide me a trampoline just before I attempt to take off....

Will try positioning my legs while sitting down too. I think part of the problem is I'm concentrating so much on kicking out in the air that I haven't really paid much attention to where I'm kicking or how.

[Rateh]

You could always try going to a gymnastic training place. They have stuff set up so that you could practice the kick in the air without having to worry about the landing, or so that you could get more hight so more time to do the kick before landing.

I do have two questions for everyone though.

1. What is a twist kick, is that a roundhouse kick?

2. Is the sine wave a tkd thing? I've never seen it before. I find it odd because in my style we emphasize NOT bobbing ever.

[bangkaliliang]

the twisting kick is the opposite of roundhouse kick, curve up your leg and kick it outsite,

i think sine wave is just one of the tkd technique, some organization use it but some dont.

[bushido_man96]

Although, I must say, that in all of the TKD patterns I am seeing online, I can say that I have never done that sine wave movement. I think it causes the techniques to be individualized too much, and makes the forms look rather choppy.

Just my opinion, though.

I never learned sine wave, but each time I see it it just looks too exaggerated for me...I think you can have plenty of power without all of that upper body movement.

If I ever joined a school that did it, though, I would just adapt...in the end, I don't think it's right or wrong, just different.

Good information on the scissor kick...I hope to do a break with it so I'm starting to work on it. Flexibility and getting enough height are the main things I'm working on now -- just need lots more practice.

I could use a lot of practice on it, myself. I would like to do it as a break, just to demonstrate that big guys can move, too!

You are welcome for the information.

[bushido_man96]

Slightly off topic but:

do you think it would be easier to learn to use sine wave after say having 10 years of training without being taught it

or

would it be easier to learn not to do it after training for 10 years and doing it?

Boy, that is a good question. Thinking about my training, I think that I would have a harder time at this point learning to do it, than dropping it, because of my natural tendency to try to piece together combinations in forms. That is just me, though. What about you???

[bushido_man96]

Ok, bear with me here. As you take off, thrust the takeoff knee up and into your trunk as violently and fast as you can. As you do that, the jumping leg will kind of trail behind, but not tucked really tight. Then, as you finish pulling your knee up into you, thrust that side kick out as fast and violently as you can, and at the same time, bring the trailing leg up to chamber and twist kick out as well. Turn your body away from the side kick, and towards the twist kick, making the side kick more like a back kick that (like a blind kick).

It's not in any of our hyung, but we have had to break with it a few times at testing and tourneyment.

As a warm up before applying bushido's suggestions; sit on the ground, lean back a little bit on 1 hand (as if in the air) and practice the scissor action a few (hundred ) times. Then, as bushido said, practice popping that jumping leg up to the chest & out to the side kick. Try it a few times with just the side kick but bring the jumping leg up to chamber as you kick. Also, I find it a little easier if I lean back just slightly (like on the floor). After you've done the jump & single kick a few times, mentally picture the other leg going out at the same time as the side kick. After a dozen of so jumps, you should have a good feel of your timing, then try and insert the reverse round kick.

In other words, try breaking it down into pieces and work up to the full kick.

Wow, that is a great explanation, Doug! Thanks for elaborating further! I will use that as well.

Another think I would add, is use that scissor motion both when chambering your legs, and when kicking. Make the chambers kind of violent and dynamic as well.

[DWx]

You could always try going to a gymnastic training place. They have stuff set up so that you could practice the kick in the air without having to worry about the landing, or so that you could get more hieght so more time to do the kick before landing.

Yeah, I think I really need to do that, but there are no specific gymnastic training centres around here. One of my friends who does gymnastics and capoeira sent me this information on an "air-Alert" training programme. Its supposed to improve your vertical height when jumping. Has anyone ever heard or used the programme before?

I do have two questions for everyone though.

1. What is a twist kick, is that a roundhouse kick?

2. Is the sine wave a tkd thing? I've never seen it before. I find it odd because in my style we emphasize NOT bobbing ever.

I've always had the twist kick described to me as if the inside of your foot was to kick a football (or soccerball?) but continue through and keep twisting it. Essentially you are kicking something to one side of you.

http://images.google.co.uk/images?q=%22twisting+kick%22&ndsp=20&svnum=10&hl=en&rls=DVXA,DVXA:2005-52,DVXA:en&start=0&sa=N

If sine wave is done properly it should not bob. The aim of it is not to bounce up and down in your stance but to arrive in your stance from a higher point and drop your mass downwards at the moment of impact. A common problem is for people to bring themselves out of their stance too soon before the technique is complete and showing this bobbing motion.