Are there any other KSW practicioners here?

[bushido_man96]

Thanks for the expanation, Ed. So, you did enjoy the KSW training?

[KarateEd]

I enjoyed it, but I did have a problem with the introduction of more advanced techniques so early in training. I already had MA experience when I trained in KSW so I was competent in the basics, but a beginner might pick up some bad habits jumping into more advanced techniques before honing their basics. Also, I remember doing hook kicks from a front stance position and my hips just didn't like it. I am used to doing any kick from a fighting stance, not a front stance.

As I mentioned earlier I enjoyed the joint locking/pressure point techniques, they were different from what I had learned up to that point.

I trained in KSW while I was in the desert so we didn't have a formal dojang populated with martial artists of varying experience in the KSW system, so as far as the environment/structure of a KSW training hall I cannot provide adequate information.

Ed

[SBN Doug]

I have had a little experience in Kuk Sool Won.

It sounds like KarateEd was getting some "less than formal" training in the art. I've never done a hook kick from a front stance (back leg straight with foot at about a 45 degree angle forward). Also, when I came up through the ranks we didn't learn anything more than the 7 basic kicks until we were about red belt (~18 months). After that we began mid level and low spin kicks. Jump kicks didn't start until well into brown.

As to the weapons, The BB of C, you should actually start jung bong spinning once you're a Dan Bo Nim (black/brown). Depending on your instructor, you may also start the 5 basic sword cutting techniques with a wooden sword shortly before black.

[The BB of C]

Karate Ed, you think that advanced techniques are introduced early on? I dissagree. I am too a yellow belt in the style currently and in my oppinion most what I do seems pretty basic to me.

PSBN Doug, just curious, because I believe weapons should be introduced early in training as well as all types of basic attacks (etc a spinning kick would be one of the first things you'd learn instead of waiting 18 months before you're allowed to do it in class), what is the purpose of waiting 3 years (or until I get my brown belt) before I should spin nunchucks?

[KarateEd]

The training environment was informal. However, when we tested we video taped ourselves and sent it to my instructor's teacher for review and grading/judging. I can not remember what the name of my instructor's teacher is, but I have the documents at my parents house and will look up his name next time I am there. He was located in California, around San Diego, I believe.

The BB of C, looks like you want a KSW instructor with the philosophy of my KSW instructor and vice-versa.

Ed

[The BB of C]

That's an interesting way of testing and getting graded.

[KarateEd]

Well, we were in a remote, classified location at the time, so that was the best way to do it.

Ed

[The BB of C]

I see. Do you think it was effective?

[KarateEd]

Let me clarify that my instructor was there on site, so I received personal instruction. I was just graded via videotape.

Was it effective? Hmmm...good question. I have sat in on or been a judge at many testings of both blackbelts and white/color belts and the nice thing about in-person testing is that if a person does the same or similiar techniques wrong several times a judge can always ask them to repeat it or a similar move to check if their incorrect technique was just random (due to nervousness, perhaps) or a bad habit. On a videotape what you see is what you get, you can't delve into it any further and you are limited to just one viewing angle unless multiple cameras are in use. Those are my biggest concerns, but I do think it can be a valid way of evaluating students.

Ed

[SBN Doug]

Very interesting. Unless you are testing for black belt, you are typically not required to test in front of anyone other than your instructor. I'm wondering why you were required to do this? Was your instructor a licensed BB in KSW, or was he teaching it as fast as he was learning it himself?

PSBN Doug, just curious, because I believe weapons should be introduced early in training as well as all types of basic attacks (etc a spinning kick would be one of the first things you'd learn instead of waiting 18 months before you're allowed to do it in class), what is the purpose of waiting 3 years (or until I get my brown belt) before I should spin nunchucks?

This will be a multi-purpose answer, but varies based on the school you're in.

First, jool bong are not a "mandatory" part of the curriculum. In other words, you are not graded on them for any belt level throughout the art. This is similar to the knife throwing and archery. (IMO however, they should not be telling you not to spin them on your own either. That's up to you, and I don't see any significantly bad habits you might develop if you did. Perhaps it's just one of those "typical" answers the Master has instructed them all to say.)

Second, take a look at the curriculum you DO have to learn for black belt. The stand up grappling alone is significant, so my guess is that Kuk Sa Nim decided to give us a firm grasp of all the empty hand basics before moving on to weapons (which of course is in contradiction to some other arts that start with weapons and move to empty hand later.)

Spin kicks are a tricky animal. If you don't have all you basic kicks down pat, you can seriously injure yourself with a spin kick (or leave yourself wide open for a counter). Most schools will typically work in the more advanced kicks and hand strikes as they are required for the form. So, I actually miss-spoke earlier as you do learn some basic jump kicks early on in the forms, but the advanced ones do come later. Mid level spin kicks are in Joong Geup Hyung for blue so you actually get those closer to a year, then the low spin kicks with the following form after you're red. A turning back side kick actually comes much sooner, but is not technically a spin kick. (And again, these times are estimated based on 6 months per belt level, and can very with your speed of advancement.)

So, here's my opinion (because as I said every school will be different). Go ahead and spin your chucks at home, and if they offer some advanced classes (like the BB Club) you can join in and be ahead of the game. However, they are NOT a major part of the training. When you get to Dan Bo Nim you should begin staff spinning and sword cutting as I believe Master Gary sticks pretty close to Master Harmon's schedule. However, if you're at one of the other NY schools, as I said, teaching practices can vary.